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[Datsun 1200 encyclopedia]

R160 Swap

(Difference between revisions)

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Category: Suspension Modifications

Revision as of 21:59, 1 March 2008
Ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)

<- Previous diff
Current revision
ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)
(->Pigdog)
Line 1: Line 1:
-The Fuji R160 differential was used in the Datsun 510 and most Subarus. It is an Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) setup, and strong enough to handle output from 2 liter engines, even turbocharged ones. Early Subarus and 510 R160s are [http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm#What%20kind%20of%20Differential%20is%20in%20my%20510 bolt-in replacements for each other]. The ready availability of this system in wrecking yards (Subaru) and the Datsun-ness of it all makes it an intriguing swap possibility. The 510 rear assembly track width only 1-inch wider than a Datsun 1200 rear axle assembly, so perhaps it is possible without narrowing.+The Hitachi [[R160]] differential was used in the Datsun [[510]], Datsun [[610]] and most Subarus. It is an Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) setup, and strong enough to handle output from 2 liter engines, even turbocharged ones. Early Subarus and 510 R160s are [http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm#What%20kind%20of%20Differential%20is%20in%20my%20510 bolt-in replacements for each other]. The ready availability of this system in wrecking yards (Subaru) and the Datsun-ness of it all makes it an intriguing swap possibility. The 510 rear assembly track width only 1-inch wider than a Datsun 1200 rear axle assembly, so perhaps it is possible without narrowing.
 += Overview =
 +Hitachi makes these differentials. While Hitachi is a Nissan-associated company, Nissan and Fuji have been partners over the years and share some of the same parts. Even to the extent that many Datsun 1200s were made in the Fuji factory (per Cusumano's book).
-Fuji Heavy Industries, owner of Subaru, makes these differentials. Nissan and Fuji have been partners over the years, even to the extent that many Datsun 1200s were made in the Fuji factory (per [[Cusumano]]'s book).+{{Album|23130}}
 +Datsun [[510]] (1600) model series of the Bluebird family is the source of inexpensive IRS donors. It uses the common Hitachi [[R160]] differential as used by the ubiquitous Subarus. The newer 610 (180B) has similar suspension but is a bit wider so less appropriate for a 1200.
 +
 += Datsunfreak =
 +Datsunfreak swapped 510 IRS into Datsun 1200 coupe: [http://community.ratsun.net/topic/3594-got-some-work-done-on-the-1200-today/page__view__findpost__p__422625 Datsunfreak's IRS swap on Ratsun]
 +
 +{{Album|23131}} {{Album|23132}}
 +
 += 180YSSS =
 +Sunny [[B210]] fitted with [[510]] SSS Independent rear suspension using {{wiki|SEAT Ibiza}} rear struts
 +
 +{{Album|22665}} {{UploadPost|14329_4d0a77414abce.jpg|349215}} {{UploadPost|14329_4d0a7865155e6.jpg|349215}} {{UploadPost|14329_4d0a77ef82ad9.jpg|349215}}
 +
 += Pigdog =
 +Club member pigdog explored fitting 610 (200B) IRS to his 1200 ute, although eventually he abandoned this idea and fitted a shortened [[Borg Warner Differential]] live axle and 4-link suspension.
 +<br>{{Album|10852}} {{Album|12645}} {{Album|11996}}
= Measurements = = Measurements =
-Track Width:+ Track Width:
-* Datsun 1200 (B110): [[Measurements|49.0 inches]] (1245 mm)+ Datsun 1200 (B110): [[Measurements|49.0 inches]] (1245 mm)
-* Datsun 1600 (P510): 50 in+ Datsun 1600 (P510): 50 in
-* Datsun 240Z (S30): 53 in (1346 mm)+ Datsun 240Z (S30): 53 in (1346 mm)
NOTE: track width is measured from the NOTE: track width is measured from the
Line 17: Line 34:
measurement if the wheels have zero [[Offset]]. measurement if the wheels have zero [[Offset]].
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=15529 http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photos/15529.jpg]+{{Album|15529}}
-Drum-to-drum Width:+ Drum-to-drum Width (see [[Diff Widths]])
-* Datsun 1200 (B110): 51.36 (1305 mm)+ Datsun B110: 1305 mm
-* Datsun 1600 (P510):+ Datsun P510: R160 diff
-* Datsun 240Z (S30): + Datsun V510: [http://forum.ratsun.net/showthread.php?t=2401 53 in]
- +Can the 2-inch wider 510 difference be mitigated by using highly-positive offset (FWD-style) wheels on the back? 5" wheels with 1" (25mm) offset fit fine under the stock fenders. 5" wheels with 2.5" offset can be had, so theoretically you might be able to fit -- with the right wheels -- a 2" wider axle under the stock 1200 fenders.
-Can the 1-inch wider 510 difference be mitigated by using highly-positive offset (FWD-style) wheels on the back? 5" wheels with 1" (25mm) offset fit fine under the stock fenders. 5" wheels with 2.5" offset can be had, so theoretically you might be able to fit -- with the right wheels -- a 2" wider axle under the stock 1200 fenders.+
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=15528 http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photos/15528.jpg]+{{Album|15528}}
-* rear track: 49.0 inches (1245 mm)+ * rear track: 49.0 inches (1245 mm)
-* wheel offset: [[Wheel#Wheel_Offset|30 mm positive offset]] (1.18 inches) - mounting face is 30mm outboard of the wheel's center line+ * wheel offset: [[Wheel#Wheel_Offset|30 mm positive offset]] (1.18 inches)
-* tire width: about 4 inches+ mounting face is 30mm outboard of the wheel's center line
-* Thus, rear overall width (outside of nominal tread width) is about 53 inches (49" track + 4" tire width). + * tire width: about 4 inches
 + * Thus, rear overall width (outside of nominal tread width) is about
 + 53 inches (49" track + 4" tire width).
Actual measurement on my B110 with stock wheels and tire size is 55" (~1397 mm). The difference from the calculated amount above is that the tire sidewalls stick out further than the tire tread. Actual measurement on my B110 with stock wheels and tire size is 55" (~1397 mm). The difference from the calculated amount above is that the tire sidewalls stick out further than the tire tread.
- 
Drum-to-drum measurement (outside of drum) of the stock B110 H145 assembly can be calculated at 51.36" (49" track + 2 x 1.18" offset) or 1305 mm Drum-to-drum measurement (outside of drum) of the stock B110 H145 assembly can be calculated at 51.36" (49" track + 2 x 1.18" offset) or 1305 mm
= Ratios = = Ratios =
-Datsun 510 (IRS models, i.e. Sedan and Coupe)+ Datsun 510 (IRS models, i.e. Sedan and Coupe)
-* 3.70 - 1968 P510 (1600)+ * 3.70 - 1968 P510 (1600)
-* 3.90 - 1969-1973 P510+ * 3.90 - 1969-1973 P510
-* 4.38 - L13, L14 models+ * 4.38 - L13, L14 models
- +
- +
-Subaru BRAT, Loyale, GL, RX, XT, etc (most pre-1990 models)+
-* 3.70+
-* 3.70 with clutch-pack LSD (non-USA models)+
-* 3.90+
-* 4.11+
-* 4.44 +
- +
-Starting in 2000 a wholesale switch was made to Viscous-Coupling LSDs. Unforuntately the newer units have different stub axles so they are no longer a straight bolt-in for the Datsun 510 diff.+ Subaru BRAT, Loyale, GL, RX, XT, etc (most pre-1990 models)
 + * 3.70
 + * 3.70 with clutch-pack LSD (non-USA models)
 + * 3.90
 + * 4.11
 + * 4.44
 +Starting in 2000 a wholesale switch was made to viscous-coupling LSD. Unforuntately the newer units have different stub axles so they are no longer a straight bolt-in for the Datsun 510 diff unless you include new axles.
-LSD availability: See Hafer's article [http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm#What%20kind%20of%20Differential%20is%20in%20my%20510 Installing Subaru Limited-Slip Differentials]+ LSD availability:
-* Clutch-pack LSD is a performance advantage over Viscous-Coupling LSDs+ * Clutch-pack LSD is a performance advantage over Viscous-Coupling LSDs
-* Viscous-Coupling LSDs are good for all-wheel drive, but not as good as clutch-pack for RWD applications.+ * Viscous-Coupling LSDs are good for all-wheel drive,
 + but not as good as clutch-pack for RWD applications.
 +See Hafer's article [http://kmhafer.datsun510.com/Subaru.htm#What%20kind%20of%20Differential%20is%20in%20my%20510 Installing Subaru Limited-Slip Differentials].
-[[Category:Suspension Modifications]]+[[Category:Suspension Modifications]]{{End}}

Current revision

The Hitachi R160 differential was used in the Datsun 510, Datsun 610 and most Subarus. It is an Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) setup, and strong enough to handle output from 2 liter engines, even turbocharged ones. Early Subarus and 510 R160s are bolt-in replacements for each other. The ready availability of this system in wrecking yards (Subaru) and the Datsun-ness of it all makes it an intriguing swap possibility. The 510 rear assembly track width only 1-inch wider than a Datsun 1200 rear axle assembly, so perhaps it is possible without narrowing.

Contents

Overview

Hitachi makes these differentials. While Hitachi is a Nissan-associated company, Nissan and Fuji have been partners over the years and share some of the same parts. Even to the extent that many Datsun 1200s were made in the Fuji factory (per Cusumano's book).

23130.jpgAlbum 23130

Datsun 510 (1600) model series of the Bluebird family is the source of inexpensive IRS donors. It uses the common Hitachi R160 differential as used by the ubiquitous Subarus. The newer 610 (180B) has similar suspension but is a bit wider so less appropriate for a 1200.

Datsunfreak

Datsunfreak swapped 510 IRS into Datsun 1200 coupe: Datsunfreak's IRS swap on Ratsun

23131.jpgAlbum 23131 23132.jpgAlbum 23132

180YSSS

Sunny B210 fitted with 510 SSS Independent rear suspension using SEAT Ibiza rear struts

22665.jpgAlbum 22665 14329_4d0a77414abce.jpgPost 349215 14329_4d0a7865155e6.jpgPost 349215 14329_4d0a77ef82ad9.jpgPost 349215

Pigdog

Club member pigdog explored fitting 610 (200B) IRS to his 1200 ute, although eventually he abandoned this idea and fitted a shortened Borg Warner Differential live axle and 4-link suspension.
10852.jpgAlbum 10852 12645.jpgAlbum 12645 11996.jpgAlbum 11996

Measurements

Track Width:
Datsun 1200 (B110): 49.0 inches (1245 mm)
Datsun 1600 (P510): 50 in
Datsun 240Z (S30): 53 in (1346 mm)
NOTE: track width is measured from the 
center of the tires 
 
It can only equal an axle "hub-to-hub" 
measurement if the wheels have zero Offset.

15529.jpgAlbum 15529

Drum-to-drum Width (see Diff Widths)
Datsun B110: 1305 mm
Datsun P510: R160 diff
Datsun V510: 53 in

Can the 2-inch wider 510 difference be mitigated by using highly-positive offset (FWD-style) wheels on the back? 5" wheels with 1" (25mm) offset fit fine under the stock fenders. 5" wheels with 2.5" offset can be had, so theoretically you might be able to fit -- with the right wheels -- a 2" wider axle under the stock 1200 fenders.

15528.jpgAlbum 15528

* rear track: 49.0 inches (1245 mm)
* wheel offset: 30 mm positive offset (1.18 inches) 
  mounting face is 30mm outboard of the wheel's center line
* tire width: about 4 inches
* Thus, rear overall width (outside of nominal tread width) is about 
  53 inches (49" track + 4" tire width). 

Actual measurement on my B110 with stock wheels and tire size is 55" (~1397 mm). The difference from the calculated amount above is that the tire sidewalls stick out further than the tire tread.

Drum-to-drum measurement (outside of drum) of the stock B110 H145 assembly can be calculated at 51.36" (49" track + 2 x 1.18" offset) or 1305 mm

Ratios

Datsun 510 (IRS models, i.e. Sedan and Coupe)
* 3.70 - 1968 P510 (1600)
* 3.90 - 1969-1973 P510
* 4.38 - L13, L14 models
Subaru BRAT, Loyale, GL, RX, XT, etc (most pre-1990 models)
* 3.70
* 3.70 with clutch-pack LSD (non-USA models)
* 3.90
* 4.11
* 4.44 

Starting in 2000 a wholesale switch was made to viscous-coupling LSD. Unforuntately the newer units have different stub axles so they are no longer a straight bolt-in for the Datsun 510 diff unless you include new axles.

LSD availability: 
* Clutch-pack LSD is a performance advantage over Viscous-Coupling LSDs
* Viscous-Coupling LSDs are good for all-wheel drive, 
  but not as good as clutch-pack for RWD applications.

See Hafer's article Installing Subaru Limited-Slip Differentials

¤