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[Datsun 1200 encyclopedia]

Starter

(Difference between revisions)

Datsun 1200 encyclopedia | Recent changes | Switch to MediaWiki mode

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Category: Engine Electrical System

Revision as of 03:50, 7 February 2017
ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)
(->Part Numbers)
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Revision as of 22:11, 17 September 2018
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Line 43: Line 43:
= Reduction Starter = = Reduction Starter =
-There are two types of reduction gear starter for A-series engines. They are used for increase torque, especially for cold weather starting. This means the starter turns slower, but apply the same horsepower. +There are two types of {{wiki|Reduction gear starting motor}} for A-series engines -- Hitachi or Mitsubishi. Reduction gearing means the starter turns slower, but applies the same horsepower. They are used for increase torque, especially for cold weather starting.
== Hitachi Reduction Starter == == Hitachi Reduction Starter ==
-1977 Canada models and 1978-up USA models used an optional [[wikipedia:Reduction gear starting motor|Reduction gear starting motor]] with increase torque for easy starting in sub-zero temperatures. This is also a good upgrade for high-compression engines. It was used in Japan market too. +23300-H9100
 +<br>{{Album|20811}} {{AlbumH|19103|jpg|240}}
-On the B210 it requires a different right-side engine mount. +1977 Canada models and 1978-up USA models used an optional reduction gear starting motor with increase torque for easy starting in sub-zero temperatures. This is also a good upgrade for high-compression engines. It was used in Japan market too.
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=19103 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/19103.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20503 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20503.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20504 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20504.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20505 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20505.jpg] +{{Album|20503}} {{Album|20504}} {{Album|20505}}
-The Hitachi can be identified by the thin end plate. The Mitsubishi reduction starter uses a thick pressed steel end plate which looks like a standard starter.+The Hitachi can be identified by the thin end plate. By contrast, the Mitsubishi reduction starter uses a thick pressed steel end plate which looks like a standard starter.
 +<br>{{Album|20825}} {{Album|20826}}
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20825 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20825.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20826 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20826.jpg]+Details on fitting this to a Datsun 1200 are needed. Can it be done? On the B210 it requires a different right-side engine mount.
- +
-Details on fitting this to a Datsun 1200 are needed. Can it be done?+
- +
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20811 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/20811.jpg]+
-<br>23300-H9100+
== Mitsubishi Reduction Starter == == Mitsubishi Reduction Starter ==
-The Mitsubishi reduction starter motor was used in Japan market B310s. It was not used USA market. This motor has a thick drive gear casting and a thin sandwhich section in the middle (the Hitachi is made the other way: Thick sandwhich with thin drive gear casting).+The Mitsubishi reduction starter motor was used in Japan market B310s. It was not used USA market. This motor has a thick drive gear casting and a thin sandwich section in the middle (the Hitachi is made the other way: Thick sandwich with thin drive gear casting).
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=13253 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/13253.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20820 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20820.jpg] [http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=20821 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/20821.jpg] +{{Album|13253}} {{Album|20820}} {{Album|20821}}
-[http://www.pitroad-ts.com/A-parts-2/Ignition/starter-motor.htm Pitroad] Reduction Starter+[http://www.pitroad-ts.com/A-parts-2/Ignition/starter-motor.htm Pitroad Reduction Starter] for 1971-1973
-<br>http://www.pitroad-ts.com/A-parts/Ignition/starter-motor.JPG+<br>{{ExtPhoto|http://www.pitroad-ts.com/A-parts/Ignition|starter-motor.JPG}}
-<br>for 1971-1973+
-[http://www.datsun1200.asia/category/select/cid/317/pid/8865/language/en Bprojects] Reduction Starter(1.2Kw)+[http://www.datsun1200.asia/category/select/cid/317/pid/8865/language/en Bprojects Reduction Starter] (1.2Kw)
-<br>http://www.datsun1200.asia/resources/upload/products/thumbnail2/23300h9112-2015730-001.JPG+<br>{{ExtPhoto|http://www.datsun1200.asia/resources/upload/products|23300h9112-2015730-001.JPG}}
For 1974-up utes, cut a bit of the right-side tower like this: For 1974-up utes, cut a bit of the right-side tower like this:
- +<br>{{ExtPhoto|http://www.pitroad-ts.com/A-parts/Ignition|stater-3.JPG}}
-http://www.pitroad-ts.com/A-parts/Ignition/stater-3.JPG+
= Lightweight Starter = = Lightweight Starter =

Revision as of 22:11, 17 September 2018

Datsun 1200's A12 engine uses a traditional type of starter motor with a Bendix gear drive. The aftermarket Bosch starter motor is far better the the orginal specification Datsun 1200 starter. The newer Datsun starter by Mitsubishi or Hitachi from B210 or B310 is good too and will fit the Datsun 1200's A12 engine.

Contents

Identification

A-series Engine Starting motor (hitachi or mitsubishi)
* All have 9-tooth gears

ID location is here:
21281.jpg
Mitsubishi has full ID on the nose over the solenoid:
21282.jpg
Hitachi has a simple Hitachi mark in the same place:
20813.jpg
* If you place the solenoid at the top (12:00 o'clock)
* The bottom bolt will be at 6:00 o'clock
* The top bolt at 1:00 o'clock

L-series Comparo
20816.jpg

Wiring

See main article: Wiring#Starter_Motor

Interchange

Reported interchange: All A-series. Auto or Manual.

Rotation: Clockwise, Teeth: 9

Strict interchange:

  • Manual Transmission
    • 23300-H5000, H5001, H7301 (Hollander 1217)
    • All Sunny 1971-1979 Manual Transmission
    • (what about 1980-1982?)
    • What about Datsun 1000?
    • Hollander 1395 fits if you swap the drive gear
  • Automatic Transmission
    • Part number?

23300-H0100, 23300-H6901, 23300-H0101, 23300-H6903 23300-08700, 23300-H5003, 23300-H0510, 23300-H6904, 23300-18000, 23300-H5004, 23300-H0511, 23300-H7300, 23300-18005, 23300-H5010, 23300-H3900, 23300-H7301, 23300-18015, 23300-H5011, 23300-H5000, 23300-H7302, 23300-18016, 23300-H6900, 23300-H5001, 23300-E3000

Reduction Starter

There are two types of Reduction gear starting motor for A-series engines -- Hitachi or Mitsubishi. Reduction gearing means the starter turns slower, but applies the same horsepower. They are used for increase torque, especially for cold weather starting.

Hitachi Reduction Starter

23300-H9100
20811.jpgAlbum 20811 19103.jpgAlbum 19103

1977 Canada models and 1978-up USA models used an optional reduction gear starting motor with increase torque for easy starting in sub-zero temperatures. This is also a good upgrade for high-compression engines. It was used in Japan market too.

20503.jpgAlbum 20503 20504.jpgAlbum 20504 20505.jpgAlbum 20505

The Hitachi can be identified by the thin end plate. By contrast, the Mitsubishi reduction starter uses a thick pressed steel end plate which looks like a standard starter.
20825.jpgAlbum 20825 20826.jpgAlbum 20826

Details on fitting this to a Datsun 1200 are needed. Can it be done? On the B210 it requires a different right-side engine mount.

Mitsubishi Reduction Starter

The Mitsubishi reduction starter motor was used in Japan market B310s. It was not used USA market. This motor has a thick drive gear casting and a thin sandwich section in the middle (the Hitachi is made the other way: Thick sandwich with thin drive gear casting).

13253.jpgAlbum 13253 20820.jpgAlbum 20820 20821.jpgAlbum 20821

Pitroad Reduction Starter for 1971-1973
starter-motor.JPG

Bprojects Reduction Starter (1.2Kw)
23300h9112-2015730-001.JPG

For 1974-up utes, cut a bit of the right-side tower like this:
stater-3.JPG

Lightweight Starter

Has the original power output (0.8 kw or 1.0 kw)
20819.jpg

Troubleshooting

See main article: Starter Troubleshooting

Service

Starter parts breakdown for original (2-brush) Datsun 1200 starter

  • 18979.jpg


  • The brushes can be replaced with a large soldering iron
  • The overrun cluch (drive gear) can easily be replaced

Otherwise, replace with a new, rebuilt or good used unit.

Check Gear Teeth

  • Check gear teeth for nice, consistent chamfer, as shown here.
  • Teeth worn flat with destroy a good flywheel (and vice-versa)

20815.jpg

Testing Overrun Clutch

If your starter "whizzes" just after the engine catches, the Overrun clutch is almost for sure bad. If you do not replace it, eventually it will wear so much it free spings, instead of turning the engine.

20814.jpg

  1. Remove starter from engine
  2. With your fingers, turn the small drive gear.
    • It should smoothly turn one direction
    • It should NOT turn at all the other direction, not even a little bit

The clutch gear can be easily replaced with a new or good-used unit
full

23312-E3000 ASSY-PINION <> 23312-10605 <> 23312-10600 

Check Bushing

20812.jpg

Brushes

Remove the brush cover or end cap. Inspect the brushes.

  • original Datsun 1200 type with brush band: Brushes unscrew and can be easily replaced
    20822.jpg
  • newer more powerful starters: although you can buy new brushes, it is a heavy-duty soldering job to replace them.
    20823.jpg

Solenoid

If the starter just 'clicks' but doesn't turn the engine, it is probably a low battery, or dirty wiring. It that check out, your solenoid may be dirty. Unlike other brands, the A-series solenoids have soldered connections and are not designed to be disassembled and cleaned.

You can purchase and replace the solenoid, though in some cases it is less expensive to buy the whole starter.

23322-M0100 SET-LEVER SHIFT B110
23322-H5000 SET-LEVER SHIFT B210

album

Detailing

20818.jpg
* polished drive housing
* Painted body for anodized look

Part Numbers

Nissan Part Numbers

21280.jpgAlbum 21280

B10 Hitachi (2-brush)
* 23300-18000 ASS'Y-starter HITACHI S114-87 B10 
* 23300-18005 ASS'Y-starter HITACHI S114-87K (ISO threads) B10 interchages with 23300-18000
* 23300-H0100 ASS'Y-starter HITACHI S114-87L B10 supercedes 5114 models
B10 Mitsubishi (3-brush)
* 23300-18010 ASS'Y-starter Mitsubishi MW-V1R B10 
* 23300-18011 ASS'Y-starter Mitsubishi MW-V3R B10 interchanges with MW-V1R
* 23300-18015 ASS'Y-starter Mitsubishi 206-893 (ISO threads) B10 interchanges with MW models
B110 Hitachi (2-brush)
* Auto vs Manual starter are physically identical, but auto has more torque
23300-H0101 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-87M B110 manual transmission
* Weight: 10.1 pounds
* Torque: 6.5+ lb-ft
* Brush length: 16 mm (new), 6.5 mm (service limit)
23300-H3900 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-156 B110 automatic transmission
* Weight: 11.9 pounds 
* Torque: 7.2+ lb-ft
* Brush length: 14 mm (new), 4.5 mm (service limit)
* Easily identifiable by the removable band on the case (bottom of this photo):
20817.jpg 18979.jpg
* Replaceable brushes (held in by screws)
* 1.0 KW output
B110 Mitsubishi (4-brush)
23300-18015 ASS'Y-starter Mitsubishi MW-V3R (Same as B10 part number)
23300-18016 ASS'Y-starter Mitsubishi MW-V5R (from 72-5) supercedes MW-V3R type
B120 JAPAN 7510-
23300-H5010 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER 7510-8503 Mitsubishi
23300-H5004 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER 8504-8910 Hitachi
23300-H6904 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER 8504- Hitachi(S114-163F) カンレイチヨウ (1.0Kw)
20827.jpg
23300-H5013 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER 8504-8510 Mitsubishi
23300-H5014 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER 8510-9207 Mitsubishi M2T200181D
* 0.8 KW
 20828.jpg 20829.jpg
23300-H5015 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER 9207- Mitsubishi M2T42981
* M002T, 42981, 27 20, 12V MITSUBISHI
B210 manual transmission
23300-H0101 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-87M B210 USA, JAPAN A12 M/T
23300-H5000 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-87P B210 USA, JAPAN A12 (from 73-6) M/T
23300-H5001 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-160 B210 USA, JAPAN A12 (from 74-4) M/T (4-brush)
23300-18016 MOTOR ASSY-starter JAPAN (MW-V4R) 
* direct interchage with 23300-H5010
23300-H5010 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER JAPAN (from '73-11) Mitsubishi MCA02-0
23300-H5002 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER JAPAN 1976-1977 Hitachi S114-160A
B210 Automatic transmission
23300-H3900 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-156 B210 USA, JAPAN A12 A/T
23300-H6900 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-156A B210 USA, JAPAN (from 73-6) A12 A/T
23300-H6901 ASS'Y-starter Hitachi S114-163 B210 USA, JAPAN (from 74-4) A12 A/T (4-brush)
23300-H6902 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER JAPAN 1976-1977 Hitachi S114-163B 
B310 JAPAN non-reduction starter:
23300-H5003 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER Hitachi -8010
23300-H5004 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER Hitachi 8011-
* Hitachi has:
  * square-shaped casting for solenoid lever
  * two bolt bearing cover on rear case
   20824.jpg 
23300-H5011 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER Mitubishi -7909
23300-H5012 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER Mitubishi 7910-
* Mitubishi has:
  * round-shaped casting for solenoid lever
  * bearing cover is integral with rear case
B310 USA non-reduction Starter:
23300-H6904 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER(HITACHI) (S114-163E) USA(AUTO)
* OP USA(MANUAL)
23300-H6903 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER(HITACHI) (S114-163E) USA(AUTO)
* OP USA(MANUAL) 
23300-H7301 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER(HITACHI) (S114-160B)(USA(MANUAL) -0780
23300-H7302 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER(HITACHI) (S114-160B)(USA(MANUAL) 0880-
* Specifications: Automatic S114-160G & Manual S114-163F 
  * no-load current: less than 60A
  * no-load RPM: more than 7000 RPM
  * no-load Voltage: 11.5
B310 Hitachi Reduction Gear (USA & JAPAN)
23300-H9100 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER JAPAN
23300-H9101 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER JAPAN 7910-
23300-H9101R $94.20 USD
23300-H9101 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER(HITACHI) (S114-253A) USA from 0979
* replaced 23300-H9100 MOTOR ASSY-STARTER(HITACHI) (S114-253) USA to 0878
* S114-253B Specifications
  * no-load current draw: 100A (compared to 60A)
  * no-load miniumum 3900 RPM (compared to 7000 RPM)
  * no-load Voltage: 11.0 (compared to 11.5)
B310 Mitsubishi Reduction Gear Starter (Japan market, not used in USA)
23300-H9111 Mitsubishi JAPAN 7910- 
23300-H9112 Mitsubishi 1.2 KW JAPAN Van 8110-

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