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|== S13 ==||== S13 ==|
|Nissan S13 model series (Silvia, 240SX, 180SX, 200SX)||Nissan S13 model series (Silvia, 240SX, 180SX, 200SX)|
|Nice smaller vented rotors and beefy single-pot calipers, fits over 14" wheels (13"?). Adds ~30mm to the track.||Nice smaller vented rotors and beefy single-pot calipers, fits over 14" wheels (13"?). Adds ~30mm to the track.|
Revision as of 22:23, 23 June 2012
Just about anything can and has been used! Brake and strut assemblies from Fiat to Ford have been fitted to 1200s.
Reasons to swap struts:
- To swap from front drum brake to front disc brakes (a must-do)
- To fit bigger brakes
- To lower car (and still permit sufficient suspension travel)
- To allow greater choice of high-performance strut shock inserts
Counterpoint: There are some good reasons not to change your struts.
- The stock struts are very light, which is good for acceleration and susension control (unsprung weight)
- They also have a good damping qualities for the smoothest ride.
- You can lower/shorten the stock struts
- You can fit different spring rates to the stock struts
- Less work to keep them. Less expensive to keep them.
- You can fit large brakes to stock 1200 struts. See Brake Upgrades
This article focuses on swapping struts. For simpler brake upgrades, see Brake Swaps.
For general information on better brakes, see Brake Swaps.
With stock Datsun 1200 struts or upgraded struts, you have the option to use the stock coilover configuration (which can be lowered), or convert them to small-diameter coilover springs. Advantages include:
- Many spring rates are available for customizing
- If using small-diameter springs, you gain
- more room to move the strut inward for extra negative Camber
- more room for tires, or wider tires
Stock springs can be lowered and different size and rates are availabe, so there is no advantage there to the small-diameter springs.
See main article: Coilovers
Popular conversions using Datsun donor parts
- B310 strut swap brake upgrade. A great bolt on. Larger brakes. Requires cutting and lowering the spring cup
- 280ZX strut swap brake upgrade. Great for lowered cars, big brakes. Requires cutting and lowering the spring cup
- A10 (78-82 510, Stanza) Strut swap brake upgrade. Very large brakes possible. Requires cutting and lowering the spring cup
A no-maching/no cutting/no welding solution is the 280ZX brakes on stock 1200 strut.
1200 Disc-brake Swap
B110 "Standard" models used front drum brakes (most Aussie sedans are STD models). You can simply bolt the disc-brake struts together with brake assembly directly onto a STD car. You will also need the master cylinder and brake lines.
See main article: 1200 Disc Brake Swap
120Y Strut Swap
1. Japan-built 120Y
For the Australia market B210 (120Y), the bare strut is the same for the 1200 coupe & the 120Y [Australia built sedans excepted] and so are the disc brakes. Springs too if i'm not mistaken, so these parts will provide you with a stock upgrade, but use the 1200's upper spring seat [the bit that bolts to the body] to avoid raising the front.
2. Australian-assembled 120Y Sedan
Late model 120Y PBR brakes pull up hard!! For a CA18DET conversion 120Y or 1200 coupe struts & discs are legally sufficient and have great stopping capablities, just not repeatedly in a short period of time the 120Y Brakes have suprised us a couple of times as to how well they stop. SeeTime to get this datto stopping and turning!
B310 with 13" wheels and USA HB210 caliper swap - add bigger brakes, this is the easiest upgrade, but are still light in performance compared to modern cars. Good for street use, and can be modified for racing use.
NOTE: Datsun 1200 (B110) uses 45mm diameter strut tubes, while HB210 USA uses 50.8 (as with almost all other Datsuns). This means the HB210 strut itself is not interchangeble with B110, but as a whole assembly it can be done.Rotor Sizes
|Dia. (mm)||Part Number||Source|
|212.5||40206-H1006||B110, B210 with A12 1974, 1975|
|220 (AN18)||40206-H7500||B210 A12 1976-1978,B310 with 12" wheels|
|232||40206-A1155||B210 A13, PB110?, PB210 early?|
|245 (AN20)||40206-U6700||B210 A14, B310 A14/A15, PB210 late?|
You can swap USA HB210 struts onto a 1200, to get larger brakes. Use the 1200 spring.
- B210 with A12 & A13 engine have larger strut/brake assemblies that will fit under 12" wheels
- If you are moving to 13" wheels, do the B310 swap instead for even better brakes for no extra work
- Australian built 120Y's from July 1976 used a completely diferent disc brake setup. They use a Mitusbishi (?) caliper and brake pads
- reference: Marty's 120Y brake swap
- 1978 120Y Sedan struts discs and calipers are an Aussie assembled PBR product
See main article: B310 Strut Swap
Australia-assembled Stanza (1978-1981) is a beefier version of the B110/B210/B310 suspension but with beefy PBR brakes ... so the parts fit with only small modifications.
See main article: Stanza Strut Swap
280ZX Struts & Brakes
1979-1982 280ZX (S130) front strut/brake conversion:
- 10" vented rotors
- solid, single-piston caliper
- shorter strut height
- will clear certain 13" wheels
- decrease in track allows wider wheels/tires
- Better than Z-car (S30) parts, because it has the correct camber angle. And can fit under some 13" wheels, while 240Z/260Z/280Z requires 14" wheels
See main article: 280ZX Strut Swap
This is nearly a bolt-in, using A10 (stanza, H510) or B310 (sunny) lower control arms, steering arms, balljoints and outer tie rod ends.
Nissan S13 model series (Silvia, 240SX, 180SX, 200SX)
Nice smaller vented rotors and beefy single-pot calipers, fits over 14" wheels (13"?). Adds ~30mm to the track.
S13 brakes on B210 disc-brake Struts
The Silvia S13, S14 centre bore is 68mm and the 1200 hub is 70mm at the disk seat. But the Silvia disk has a huge backspacing compared to the 1200 disk. Perhaps 2mm need to be machined off? custom adaptor plates for the caliper are also needed.
You need an adaptor plate for the the calipers.
You may need to swap the struts right-to-left and left-to-right to clear the steering arms. Also, mount the calipers INBOARD for better weight distribution.
'78 120y struts discs and calipers cos they're an aussie assembled PBR product. i aslo swapped the struts left to right to clear the steering arms once i put silvia rotors and calipers in place. low1000
Optional: use Hilux 4-pot calipers, which only involve the elongation of one bolt hole with a round file and then bolt straight up over 180SX discs. These are similar to MK63 calipers but are cast iron instead of alloy.
Wise words from Bundy351: I am running 120y struts in my 1200 ute. On these struts I have a Kev Rowley Brake adaptor plate (about $100 for the pair) Rotors, calipers, calliper bolts (2 per caliper) and wheel studs from a 1989 nissan silvia. You also need the flexi brake hose (mine came off a 1995 corolla cause thats all I could find). Very simple conversion.
- MACHINE THE OUTER DIAMETER OF THE HUBS DOWN SO THE ROTOR WILL SLIDE OVER IT (150mm FROM MEMORY BUT I HAVE HAD ALLOT OF RUM SINCE I DID CONVERSION) PREFERABLY USE A LATHE BUT YOU CAN USE A GRINDER.
- KNOCK OUT 120Y STUDS AND BANG IN SILVIA ONES
- CUT A 10mm SLOT IN THE HOSE MOUNT ON THE STRUT TUBE (LITTLE METAL TAB THE BRAKE HOSE SITS IN)
- BOLT BRACKETS TO STRUTS
- SLIDE ROTORS ON
- BOLT CALIPERS ON WITH PADS
- CONNECT HOSES
- RE-FIT WHEELS
- TEST DRIVE
WHERE TO CUT THE 10mm SLOT
WHAT THE BRACKET LOOKS LIKE
TRD struts are often used on 1200s. See how-to pictorial on strut shortening: TRD Race Height Suspension Conversion Guide.
Less Popular Swaps
car: 240Z/260Z/280Z (Datsun model series S30 chassis code)
This is not a good swap, because it adds positive camber:
- 240Z: 5° nominal
- B110: 8° nominal
Instead, do the 280ZX swap.
- Add adustable camber strut tops to bring it back to 0 camber
- 240Z brakes on 1200 Strut. This involves welding, and fabricating new parts. See Datsun 1200 Competition Suspension Manual
- For stiffer spring rate, use 280ZX rear coil spring on Z-car strut on front of B110
Datsun model series 610 is marketed as 610, 180B, or Bluebird U.
This is not a conversion for someone without a mig welder and a workshop. The springs are larger diameter in the 180B. They will NOT fit in the 1200 strut tower. You will have to remove the spring perches, and weld on stanza or 1200 ones. Stanza ones are better because the Stanza strut tube diameter is the same as 180B. You will also need to swap the top of the struts too, including the mount, 1200 springs and thrust bearing.
discussion: Installing 180b struts
NOTE: PB210 and USA B210s use 610 parts. 1967-1973 510 also may be the same.
Datsun model series 810 (1977-1980) was marketed as Bluebird, or as 200B in right-hand-drive export markets.
Because the 810 struts are Datsun 2" struts, use 2" strut-accepting package.
2" strut support from large-B310/late-B210/late-B120: * Knuckle Arm * Balljoint * LCA
You can use the stock 810 brakes, or fit/modify other brakes to it.
For example, shortened 810 Struts with 280z strut cartridge inserts, 300zx rotors with Toyota 4piston calipers
front crossmember is a stock 80 210 [North America B310] piece.
810 Struts I belive are the same lenght as 210 but they have large spring perches and a different Caliper bolt pattern. They are also the same geometry and bolt to the same lower ball joint. Mine have been shortened to exept the 280z front shocks and the small 210 perches Have been welded on. Once you have done this they will bolt in using the 210 springs and upper bearings. At least a 79-82 210 I'm not sure about earlier models. The brake Calipers will the bolt on(89 toyota 4X4 Pickup). The rotors are 300zx turned down appx. 1/8" Mounted on 280zx Front hubs with a rotor spacer. The only problem with this setup is you must run a 1/4" wheel spacer so the 300zx wheels don't hit the struts. I'm currently looking for a sulution to this But until then the spacers work fine. It's really not as hard as it sounds. I enjoy answering your questions and am looking forward to more!!
Datsun/Nissan 910 aka Maxima, Bluebird
Nissan 910 is named "Maxima" or Bluebird. These struts fit the usual A10/B310 lower parts -- except you need a 5x3 mm ring (? diameter) to properly seat them. And use the Sunny strut tops.
Skyline R30, R31
Most likely, you would have to change the whole strut assembly, which will require B310 or A10 (Stanza) control arms, balljoints and such.
- Has the wrong spindle again, resulting in increased camber (positive camber, not good)
- The Skyline R31 strut does not exactly fit on a B310/A10 arm, so a small ring spacer needs to be machined up.
- Fits perfectly with 15x6.5 rims with a 38 mm offset
- Bump Steer
- It literally causes the car to turn one directly or another when you go over bumps. Not so good, but in small amounts can be acceptable. Some factory car setups have a little bumpsteer, so it's OK but not ideal.
- To prevent bumpsteer, the bottom lower control arm needs to be the same length as the steering arm. This is because of the relationship of the arcs described by the lower control arm vs the steering arm. If the arm pivots are not concentric, you generate bump steer when there is vertical suspension movement.
- Moving the holes in the crossmember outwards may mean you end up with a steering arm longer than the suspension arm, resulting in bumpsteer that you cant fix with spacers.
- Instead, to gain more negative Camber, consider moving the top of the strut inwards to give yourself more camber. It doesnt give you as much increased track, but wont mess your bumpsteer around as much.
- For increased track width, consider using modified (longer) steering arms with your longer lower control arm.
- Road Racing: with the high spring rates and limited suspension travel involved, having a little bumpsteer is not as critical as on say a gravel or offroad racing car.
- Scrub Radius
- You can make small changes to scrub radius with positive results to steering behaviour, but like a lot of things a little can be good and a little bit more disastrous!
- For 0 scrub radius, the tyre contact patch centre should be at the same point on the road surface as the extended strut axis from upper pivot through ball joint to the road surface
Car performance is all a matter of balance. The harder it goes, the harder you need to be able to stop. This increased stopping power comes at a price, and that seems to be increased mass of the unsprung weight.
Road cars usually travel slower than race cars and ride quality is more important, so a lighter brake/suspension could be justified. It's all a matter of balance.
Others don't mind a rougher ride as long as it corners better with less dive under braking and less body roll. But this is potentially disastrous for a race car running at 10/10ths grip.
The good news is that you have large brakes AND lightweight suspension -- by upgrading to large brakes on the stock 1200 struts or 120Y stuts. See Brake Swaps for details.
I remember talk about S13 calipers and rotors on a 120Y strut, which is some pretty serious braking power - well above that offered by a set of girlocks on the Stanza strut - meaning maybe it's possible to get a whole lot of braking power out of a 120Y strut....which would mean top brakes and lower unsprung weight!
Short-ratio Steering Arms
The problem with most strut swaps (except 1200 or 120Y struts) is that they will make your steering slower. Some guys don't mind this, but if you to retain the faster steering read on.
180B steering arms may be shorter than A10. B210 large-size are shorter than A10.Grunterhunter:
stanza steering arms are longer (146mm) than the 120y ones (138mm) ...This will give a slower steering response ...Total strut length for both the stanza and 120y, from the surface of the strut hat(?) that bolts into the tower, to the bottom of the strut where the steering arm bolts on, is 660 mm. The stanza struts are longer in total, because the bearing goes up through the tower (like the 1200), whereas the 120y sit flush.
Also see discussion: Shorter steering arms (stanza alternative)
For modified 1200/120Y quick steering arms modified to take a larger strut, see Knuckle Arm.
gary hamilton managed to squeeze RX7 4spots on his 1000 sport sedan which uses 13" wheels, but don't ask me how! http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=1372
See: Strut photo index