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Main : Members : kegs compound turbos

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compound turbos
compound turbosPopular
SubmitterkegsMore Photos from kegs   Last Update2012/6/6 13:32    Tell a friendTell a friend
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compound ca18det

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The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2012/6/7 14:01  Updated: 2012/6/7 14:01
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: compound turbos
lamb daquiri is on the money thats how it was explained to me. i am planning on water injection in the second stage (low pressure turbo) then the first water/ice intercooler, into the first stage, and the other intercooler will be built into the plenum. the figure of 60psi is just a figure id just like to run more boost than is able to be made with one turbo. plus for me its more about the engineering than racing or setting records. in my book it says they were running 75psi in 1908 lets see wat i can do lol

Poster Thread
ddgonzal
Posted: 2012/6/7 22:23  Updated: 2012/6/7 22:23
Moderator
Joined: 2001/5/3
From: Hawaii, USA
Posts: 31025
 Re: compound turbos
In 1908 they were running 3:1 compression and 1000kg engines. Was that with pure alcohol?

I heard that an A-series engine can't take 60 psi, it is impossible. Let's see you prove them wrong!

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2012/6/9 15:41  Updated: 2012/6/9 15:41
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: compound turbos
it was on diesel tractors, im not using an a series its a ca18det

Poster Thread
D
Posted: 2012/6/11 4:26  Updated: 2012/6/11 4:27
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/10/28
From: Criminal Pig free land
Posts: 10789
 Re: compound turbos
Got interested a while ago about 2005 on Compounded turbo setups cause of some Mitsu 4g63 mitsu beat pretty everything out there with over 60psi and his name was Brent Rau or other breaking 6 seconds, mad stuff.

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2012/6/7 9:26  Updated: 2012/6/7 9:26
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: compound turbos
yep she'll definately be out the bonnet,everything is mounted on v band clamps so i can either run one turbo, or both, i can fit both under the bonnet but i can then only fit one intercooler... the rear housing is a .68

Poster Thread
oda70
Posted: 2012/6/7 10:22  Updated: 2012/6/7 10:22
Home away from home
Joined: 2010/3/7
From: Brisbane
Posts: 426
 Re: compound turbos
What i have heard is back pressure is a problem with compound turbo charging the second turbo needs bigger rear housing to stop flow problems but i don't know for sure at the moment because i haven't tested mine out yet AND wheres your build thread :P

Poster Thread
lamb_daiquiri
Posted: 2012/6/7 12:16  Updated: 2012/6/7 12:16
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2009/4/30
From: Adelaide
Posts: 1111
 Re: compound turbos
Great work! Can't wait to see the result!

60psi so a pressure ratio of about 5 or sqrt(5) per stage.

Engineering guestimate to get started would be first turbo as normal, second turbo to match the new flows, so if you're going for a PR of 2 on the first stage you size the second turbo for an engine of twice the size (roughly speaking).

Pressure sensors before each turbine and after the final turbine would help refine the housing sizes. When a stage starts to choke the pressure will rise rapidly with rpm before that turbine.

Mechanical strength and maximum heat loading will likely be the limiting factors. Water injection eases the heat loading issue. I've thought about this before and thought that Water injection post the first compressor for the first inter-cooling (essentially to prevent reaching the temperature limit of the second compressor and getting a creep failure) followed by a bar and plate intercooler. Some water will condense in the intercooler (depending on how much you spray in). You can either recollect and reinject it or let it bleed off through a pin hole or float valve. A simpler but more expensive option would be a titanium compressor for the second stage and one intercooler. You've already gone air-water so see if that works first. Test how robust it is by sealing it off and filling it with compressed air.

Love to see this thing working, it's been done successfully elsewhere.

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2012/6/7 9:01  Updated: 2012/6/7 9:01
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: compound turbos
sikyne in my book turbochargers by hugh mcinnes it has the formulas, but basically u turbocharge as normal, and then your second stage must be able to flow enough air to support whatever cfm the engine requires once turbocharged.the same book goes through everything to tell u how to 2 stage turbocharge then says after saying this i must add this is obsolete and that u must do 3 to 4 stages to make enough power to win at tractor pulling. hahaha

Poster Thread
oda70
Posted: 2012/6/7 9:10  Updated: 2012/6/7 9:10
Home away from home
Joined: 2010/3/7
From: Brisbane
Posts: 426
 Re: compound turbos
looks like the big turbo is going to sit outside/above the bonnet :O
What size rear housing you running on the big turbo?

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2012/6/7 3:42  Updated: 2012/6/7 3:42
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: compound turbos
its all just a mock up till i can get my hands on an ac/dc tig, all i/c hoses will have tie bars and decent clamps. motor will be 8.5 comp with arp studs on everything, tuned on a haltech ps 1000 on e85. i built it upon the principle of everyone saying it cant be done, but time will tell.

Poster Thread
oda70
Posted: 2012/6/7 2:15  Updated: 2012/6/7 2:15
Home away from home
Joined: 2010/3/7
From: Brisbane
Posts: 426
 Re: compound turbos
60psi is abit crazy, would need oversizes head studs + lots of custom parts. Max 35/40 psi on mine. Turbos gtx3582 feeds gt2871 for faster spooling

Poster Thread
oda70
Posted: 2012/6/6 22:27  Updated: 2012/6/6 22:27
Home away from home
Joined: 2010/3/7
From: Brisbane
Posts: 426
 Re: compound turbos
Like the project, check build thread of my compound setup. Love to here more about what your plans are.

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2012/6/6 13:34  Updated: 2012/6/6 13:34
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: compound turbos
has anyone ever played with compound turbos ? i have a gt3076 feeding a t04 with two water to air intercoolers and water injection, twin wastegates and twin bov's. should be running soon, has anyone ever tuned accordingly and gone for massive boost on a ca18det, i wanna run 60psi...

Poster Thread
sikyne
Posted: 2012/6/7 1:00  Updated: 2012/6/7 1:00
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2006/6/4
From: Ballarat Victoria
Posts: 1309
 Re: compound turbos
Sounds interesting!
At 60 Psi, It`ll probably go over 1000Hp. I`d love to know how to size the turbos for a compound setup. How does the math work?
Those hoses and clamps on the intake plumbing wont cope with those presures. If you run tie bars either side of each joint, it will help a little. Wiggens type clamps would be what i`d use.
Maybe use a bar and plate intercooler, i cant see a tube and fin type holding up.
What comp ratio and fuel are you going to run?


Keep us updated, Ive never played with compound stuff before.

I`ll be watching with interest.