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Main : Members : kegs turbo a15 progress

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turbo a15 progress
turbo a15 progressPopular
SubmitterkegsMore Photos from kegs   Last Update2005/9/3 10:45    Tell a friendTell a friend
Hits3316  Comments27    0.00 (0 votes)0.00 (0 votes)
all stainless piping :) ground back cant see any joints

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Poster Thread
cheater_5
Posted: 2006/4/28 7:04  Updated: 2006/4/28 7:04
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2005/8/8
From: The garage, NZ
Posts: 1922
 Re: turbo a15 progress
arent you ment to box in the carbin a blow through setup ???
Thats just what i've seen and heard, im prob wrong with this though lol.IF you could explain, that'd be awsome

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2006/4/28 11:34  Updated: 2006/4/28 11:34
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Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress
cheater_5
with blow through it depends what u do as to whether u box the carby or not,many setups use blowthrough without a fully boxed carby like the lotus esprit (same setup as mine), 12a turbo rotary, charade turbo and im sure theres heaps of others. i think fully boxing it just makes it easier because all the pressures are equal. would be annoying to tune a fully boxed carby due to the obvious......

Poster Thread
Grunterhunter
Posted: 2006/4/28 11:56  Updated: 2006/4/28 11:56
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Joined: 2005/3/28
From: Stray-ya
Posts: 528
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Yeah, full agreement there- except for the 12A rotary. I thought it might be a good off the shelf carby for a blow through. I found an old zoom magazine which had a 12A 323 and thy mentioned upgrading the injectors & computer.......

That thing under the red 'turbo hat' looks for all the world like a carby, but it must be a throttle body

Poster Thread
Quinn
Posted: 2006/4/28 17:09  Updated: 2006/4/28 17:09
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Joined: 2002/10/7
From: Auckland N.Z
Posts: 824
 Re: turbo a15 progress
I think you guys are making a big mistake about boost and psi bla bla bla. Pressure is a mesurement of resistance, with out resistance there is no pressure. Simple. The inlet manifold is only under pressure when the butterflys are closed so sure both the water injectors and air in the manifold will be the same pressure and the water injection wont work but as soon as the butterflys open there will be positive flow through both systems and water will be forced out of the injectors. You might find that the position of the feed pipe to the water system is very important as you will want to force air into it otherwise it will take the path of least resistance and bypass it all together which would obviously stop it from working. As for regulating water flow I guess it is dependant on the size of the injectors and or the relief valve, tuning it will be up to trial and error I guess. Does the company you got it from sell different sized injectors.

Poster Thread
Daveman
Posted: 2005/9/12 12:51  Updated: 2005/9/12 12:51
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Posts: 785
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Guys I've got the solution!! You need to still run the boost line to your tank, still use the hobbs switch, still use the one way valve......All you have to do is build a tower out of your bonnet about ~ 3 metres high creating about 4-5 psi of pressure head creating a beautiful spray pattern!!

OOh I might patent that

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/17 14:30  Updated: 2005/9/17 14:30
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress
this is a ####ed situation because i see where everyone is coming from regarding pressure on both sides of the injectors etc but, they build these to put on anything that is turbo/supercharged and they say tap into inlet to get the boost to run the setup , and they say in the instructions to mount the jets in the inlet stream of the engine just before the throttle boddy, and when looking at turbo setups that arent draw through carby, the throttle body is always after the turbo so its going to have boost on both sides of the injectors, i am going to run this setup if it doesnt work i will remove it but i just cant see them telling me to put the injectors where they told me without them already doing it on other engines. also, i dont know whether itd be a good idea to have water running into the front of a turbo, ive seen compressor wheels which have been worn down to the centre shaft by water injection systems where the water has hit the spinning blades at 150000rpm+ and caused a big mess........ i think i am now going to send yella terra pic of my setup and ask them whether its going to work or not.

Poster Thread
datsik
Posted: 2006/4/28 5:20  Updated: 2006/4/28 5:20
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From: Perth Austarlia
Posts: 295
 Re: turbo a15 progress
like i said before..if ya put it on the engine side of yur carby it may work. on the turbo side of yur carby it will only work if you place the jet in a venturi.

its simple physics

Poster Thread
dattodevil
Posted: 2005/9/3 10:58  Updated: 2005/9/3 10:58
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/1/20
From: Christchurch. NZ
Posts: 1382
 Re: turbo a15 progress
wow, that looks real nice.

Poster Thread
ca18det_man
Posted: 2005/9/3 12:07  Updated: 2005/9/3 12:07
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 1999/11/25
From: Mudgee NSW Australia
Posts: 1187
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Very interesting setup how hard do you plan to push her?? I pressume the engine is built for lots of boost ??

Poster Thread
datrat_dave
Posted: 2005/9/3 15:05  Updated: 2005/9/3 15:05
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From: Melbourne
Posts: 775
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Nice one! why no intercooler kegs? Decided against it and went water injection instead? space issues?

Surley it must be almost time for installation soon!
Cant wait to see/hear how she goes...

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/4 6:02  Updated: 2005/9/4 6:02
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress
i plan to push her to about 12 pounds, but surely if its not detonating i can safely go further, and yes the engine is built for boost, not heaps as u put it but the comp is down around 8 so should be good. theres no intercooler coz i didnt wanna have to cut the front and put a cooler in. i have a 200sx one in my garage and i thought if im gonna make piping up for it then find out its no good its not worth it. i always wanted water injection so i just thought it was a good idea, especially when this kit runs itself with boost pressure not electric pumps simplicity is very good in my books.

Poster Thread
1200rallycar
Posted: 2005/9/4 15:47  Updated: 2005/9/4 15:47
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8221
 Re: turbo a15 progress
dunno if i missed discussion about this elsewhere, but how can you use boost pressure to push the water into the same boosted air at the same pressure?

Poster Thread
1200rallycar
Posted: 2005/9/8 2:51  Updated: 2005/9/8 2:51
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/3/20
From: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8221
 Re: turbo a15 progress
was still wondering how this water injection thing works?

Poster Thread
LAGWAGON
Posted: 2005/9/8 6:00  Updated: 2005/9/8 6:00
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/4/15
From: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 1664
 Re: turbo a15 progress
i'd reckon that the switch would be boost triggered, so when a certain psi level hits, a switch goes and the water is squirted in.

i think i get what you're asking and i think i get what kegs is saying. but yeah.

so its a normal water injection system then?

have you moddified you dizzy for 8 spark leads

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/8 11:19  Updated: 2005/9/8 11:19
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Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress
i asked the same question about the water going into the same pressured air, but its got two one way valves in the system that stop boost going back through the system, i think this is how the problem is overcome. someone said something bout a switch, it has a hobbs pressure switch tapped into the inlet, that unlocks the system and lets the water flow, it can be adjusted to come on at between 3 and 7psi. it seems like it wouldnt work but i tried making water come out the jets with my mouth and it came out pretty good and thats at about 3psi (i found that out with my boost gauge) hehehe so u can imagine it would work fine at say 12 psi.

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/9/8 12:01  Updated: 2005/9/8 12:01
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Posts: 2809
 Re: turbo a15 progress
It does sound strange. I mean relying on boost pressure to push the water into a manifold which contains an equal pressure to that of the pushing force.
I could understand boost pressure being used to supply water on the suction side of the turbo.
Are the jets made to be angled to create low pressure so the water is sucked out? Even then I dont understand how the water would be regulated for more boost. Is there more to the setup than what you have described?

Poster Thread
120fly
Posted: 2005/9/8 16:10  Updated: 2005/9/8 16:10
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From: Ipswich,QLD
Posts: 950
 Re: turbo a15 progress
hears a sorta explanation 1 run a line from intake which is on the positve boost side with a pcv valvle to a container that can seal close and hold pressure on the bottom of the container drill a small hole and fit 4.5mm irragation line and sael it some how run this line with a irragation jet to the front of carby fill container with ice then the rest methanol....dont forget to run the 4.5 mm hose above you reservoir or it will drain out..
so once yo come onto boost the container pressurises and squrts the mix thrugh the jet into the carby
the other way is to run a hobbs psi switch either a 5 or 10 psi one wire it up to a widscreen washer bottle with motor and everytime you hit 5,10 psi the hobbs switch will turn the motor on, this option is good to cause your able to wire it so you can turn it on and off
please correct me if im wrong or if you have any other ideas .
just an idea kegs you might want to move your squrters to infront of the carby ports for more direct cooling as were they are at the moment you may find the manifold may pool ,but you have done a great job and it all looks well worth the effort

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/9 2:15  Updated: 2005/9/9 2:15
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/1/5
From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress
i will get all the parts in a picture and explain how it all works, about the position of the jets, i umm'd and ahh's about wat ur saying, but it has been designed to be set up the same way i did it. when u buy the kit they premount the jets in a 3 inch tube that u position before ur throttle, (i couldnt use 3 inch so i had them send the jets loose) so in a stock setup like an sr20det say,it will be squirting at the end of the manifold the same way ive set it up if u know what i mean so i thoguht id stick to that

Poster Thread
120fly
Posted: 2005/9/9 3:41  Updated: 2005/9/9 3:41
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Posts: 950
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Thays great to hear kegs atleast we will have something to compare to when each others set ups are done maybe we can take some photos and run a thread on water injection once where all done

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/9 5:55  Updated: 2005/9/9 5:55
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From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress


ok this is how it all works. that one way valve gets a 5/16 boost signal from the inlet manifold and its then connected to the water reservoir then its conected to the lock off valve, when the boost rises past a set point the hobbs switch in the inlet manifold opens the lock off switch and the water can then flow to the injectors and into the motor. its a very simple setup, and i think itd be very easy to make urself.

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/9/9 12:34  Updated: 2005/9/9 12:34
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: turbo a15 progress
120fly correct me if I am wrong but you run a drawthrough setup

Poster Thread
120fly
Posted: 2005/9/10 2:26  Updated: 2005/9/10 2:26
Home away from home
Joined: 2005/1/18
From: Ipswich,QLD
Posts: 950
 Re: turbo a15 progress
yes phunk im running a draw through set up with a su carby so the squirter or jet is placed in front of the carby the system kegs has shown us can be used in all turbo applications mostly its just a matter of knowing how to apply the set up to a draw through or blow through system

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/9/10 3:48  Updated: 2005/9/10 3:48
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 Re: turbo a15 progress
Man that's one long sentence.
But yeah exactly right. Where infront of the cabie is decided by which type of turbo setup is used. Kegs needs to mount the water jets in the pipe between his aircleaner and turbo.
Where they are now, or where you previously decribed Kegs should mount them, will mean that water delivery greatly relys on how the jets are mounted. ( basically you are trying to make a carbie in a pipe ) Take a look at a carbie and try and tell me that a couple of jets placed in a pipe, will do the same thing.

Without a pump, this system relys on boost pressure to supply water. In a blowthrough setup with jets mounted like pictured above, boost pressure will have no effect.

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/10 10:50  Updated: 2005/9/10 10:50
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 Re: turbo a15 progress
phunk can u explain ur reply u have completely confused me

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/9/10 16:20  Updated: 2005/9/10 16:20
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 Re: turbo a15 progress
Basically on your blowthrough setup, I dont see this type of water injection functioning unless you rethink which side of the compressor you mount the jets.

Poster Thread
120fly
Posted: 2005/9/11 3:32  Updated: 2005/9/11 3:32
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Posts: 950
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Hi phunkdoktaspok ,sorry if we seem confusing some of these old skool things are hard to explain .but im sure we will get ther e.......CHECK this site out much more pro than us and pricey but some #### hot set ups ......www.alkycontrol.com ....... .

Poster Thread
kegs
Posted: 2005/9/11 4:43  Updated: 2005/9/11 4:43
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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From: campbelltown (sydney) australia
Posts: 1802
 Re: turbo a15 progress
this setup does and will work i bought it off yella terra,they make em to put onto turbo motors whether carby or injected, my setup is no different to a stock turbo motor like any nissan turbo, only difference is it has carbs instead of injection. i doubt they could sell these kits if they didnt work, like i said i had my doubts but i spoke to the guys at yella terra about it and they explained to me that it works fine.

Poster Thread
Grunterhunter
Posted: 2005/9/11 9:01  Updated: 2005/9/11 9:01
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From: Stray-ya
Posts: 528
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Is the answer in the size of the hoses? if you get you pressure into the system through a larger hose (5/16 or whatever) than the squirter nozzle (0.5mm), then wont it increase the force and allow it to work?

Poster Thread
Daveman
Posted: 2005/9/11 9:30  Updated: 2005/9/11 9:30
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Posts: 785
 Re: turbo a15 progress
The sizes of the hoses doesn't matter, you only want a tiny little bit of flow. BUT, how can water be injected by the exact same amount of pressure that is opposing it at the jet. It doesn't matter what different sized hoses and hoo ha it travels through, the two pressurised bodies are acting on the same area at the tip of the nozzel. i reckon it has to be mounted before the turbo.

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datsik
Posted: 2005/9/11 12:13  Updated: 2005/9/11 12:13
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From: Perth Austarlia
Posts: 295
 Re: turbo a15 progress
it can't.

if the water outlet hose is placed on the engine side of the butterflies, there may be less pressure there.
If carbies are used, a good place would be the venturi section of the carb. (this is an area of low pressure)

If that is not possble. An artificial venturi might need to be manufactured.

On the low pressure side of the turbo (as has been mention earlier) is probably the easiest and best location.

Poster Thread
Boostin
Posted: 2005/9/11 15:32  Updated: 2005/9/11 15:32
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From: Radelaide, South Australia
Posts: 432
 Re: turbo a15 progress
I may have missed somthing, but from what i can see, if he puts the sprayers in the pipe between the air filter and the turbo, by the time the water gets to its target it wont be a mist anymore. therefore by putting them directly into the plenum chamber it will still be the mist of water which is what you would obviosly want.. yeah?
The hobb switch idea is a great one, i used one to run an extra injector on a car using its standard ecu once...
There great.....

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/9/11 15:39  Updated: 2005/9/11 15:39
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 Re: turbo a15 progress
Thats the price you have to pay if you choose boost to be your pressure source and not a pump.

Poster Thread
1200rallycar
Posted: 2005/9/12 9:23  Updated: 2005/9/12 9:23
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/3/20
From: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8221
 Re: turbo a15 progress
good to see i can still create good discussion....

kegs mate, seriously, it's not going to work...

forget the lengthy explination, basically the way it's set up you are blowing the water on both sides with the same pressure, and therefore it isn't going to go anywhere, like a tug-of-war



an optiopn would be to put it before the turbo (if a turbo isnt going to be upset by water? and it will still create the desired effect? i dont know???) but you are able to do this as the air is at a lower pressure there than your boost pressure, therefore one dude in the tug-if-war is a meat axe vs. a nerd

or, leave the injectors where they are and install a pump for the water, i dont think a washer bottle pump will cut it, it needs to pump say 4-5psi higher than your boost pressure at least (but then thats where nozzle design becomes a bitch as your nozzle will only work (atomise or basically spray properly) at certain pressures, and the pressure will need to be what is specified for the nozzle plus your boost pressure)

hmmmm seems you have a pain in the arse of a problem on your hands

just thinking... try running your test you mentioned again, but this time have your mate blow into the nozzle (or hold both in your mouth) at the same time as you blow into the other hose, as this is more like the situation you are dealing with, then see if it spray in your mouth (keep it above the belt boys, above the belt!)

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/9/11 15:24  Updated: 2005/9/11 15:24
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Posts: 2809
 Re: turbo a15 progress
120fly no need to be sorry as I am not being confuzed. I do however belive you both are.
120fly that website has nothing to do with this type of water injection (non pump assisted) and I cant seem to find any yella terra website showing this product.

Kegs I have never tried to say that this setup will only work on injection or carbie. It will work on both. But drawthrough and blowthrough require different jet mounting positions. Drawthrough can be mounted close to the carbie. Blowthrough needs the jets to be mounted before the compressor. I have previously given reasoning as to why it wont work and if it was to work with the jets mounted in the above position, it would solely be relying on the venturi effect created by the jets tips and how they are positioned. Just sticking them in a pipe on an angle, means you are trying to make your own carbie out of them. A carbie isnt that easy to make. Maybe research how a carbie actually works and then you might be able to understand what you are relying on and hopeing these jets will actually do.
When you understand how a carbie works, then you will understand what the oneway valve is actually there for. (without it, your engine would run like it has an inlet air leak)
I do belive the yella terra person you spoke to, didnt 100% realise your type of turbo setup and where you were planing to mount the jets.
Is this setup on a website? I cant seem to find it on the yella terra site.

Poster Thread
converted
Posted: 2005/9/11 0:02  Updated: 2005/9/11 0:02
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/6/7
From: Newscastle, Australia
Posts: 2479
 Re: turbo a15 progress
Cant wait to see this in action, Kegs. I love the twin webers and turbo setup.
I still think that an A12 quad throttle body and turbo would be awsome, as racing in under 2 litre in improved production....