in what car that motor was used

I have absolutely no idea what cars used this engine.
There was a small bore [73mm] long stroke [77mm] engine that was also an A13 & these were used in the US version of the B210,[120Y] plus some Asian models, but this one is a 76mm bore & 70mm stroke engine.
If anyone can identify its true origin, I would be most gratefull.

This is the oil pan that was gratiously provided by a fellow KB10 owner 'somewhere in Japan'. I'm told that it is an early Tomei unit & may even have been sold new through the Datsun competition department [Datsunsport?] as a Datsun competition part. It's intended to grace my coupe.
For your help with so many aspects of my coupe, Josh, I am eternally gratefull.

I know a bloke who has one sitting in the corner of his shed. It's worn out and hell filthy, but probably rebuildable. Came out of a LHD 310 coupe
And Blair, (WHOYOURDATTY1200) has one out of a fork lift sitting beside his shed. (In the rain) with a thrown rod.
So they're out there.

I have reason to believe that Blairs damaged engine is the small bore/ long stroke version, but can't tell for sure unless he pulls the head & does a quick measure of the bore. I would love to know more about the other one though. Was it removed from a 310 coupe, or a B310 coupe?
I have a funny idea that the US model 310 was a front drive car.

I am going to need a timing case from an A10 or 1200 engine, so if anyone can help out, please drop me an e-mail or PM.
The timing case from the 1974 & later A series engines is NOT the one I seek.

Yes, the A13 is the rarest of all A-series engines.

It came in:
- 1974 B210 north america (only engine offered)
- 1981-1982 B310 Japan domestic market

By the serial number being so low, I'd guess this might be a '74.

The first photo is of the back of my A15. It's a convenient place to compare the difference in deck height between diferent A series engines.
Both the A15 & A14 shared the same dimentions in the cylinder blocks & the US A13 shared the A14's 77mm stroke so it would be reasonable to assume that the US A13 [B210] also had a tall deck block. In fact, the A13 used in the US B210 was little more than an A14 with a smaller [73mm] bore.

Ddgonzal. The photo shows only part of the serial number.
According to my Gregories 120Y manual, the A14 was also offered in the US B210. It also goes into some detail over these engines, but I have no idea why the US models were so comprehensively covered

The second picture is of my A13 & it clearly has a short deck height. It also has it's original 76mm bore, so it is not the same engine as was used in the US cars, even though it uses the same engine designation.
The original 70mm stroke crank is still laying around here somewhere & the rods were used in the big bore 1200 stroker engine that was built here.

So this eliminates the B210 as a donor, but not yet the Asian cars. The puzzle continues.

6 or 7 years ago, at the traffic lights I accelerated to the legal speed limit quickly beside a blue 1200 coupe. He was also accelerating quickly. We stopped and had a chat as we were both a little surprised by the other cars performance. He had an A13 in it with a single 40mm weber. I remember him saying something about having problems sourcing parts. Couldn't find bearings or something, Big ends I thought he said, but not sure now.

This was on the southside of Brisbane. I hadn't heard of an A13 at that stage, and it wasn't 'til I visited Feral's website that I was educated.

So there are a few out there. . .

The 1973 A13 engines here in the US were not tall-block designs. They look like the newer A12s.

Also, oddly enough, the A14 and A15 blocks are different. The latter can be identified (for one thing) by "A15" cast into the side of the block.

Interesting
I should have said that the A14 & A15 blocks were 'dimentionally' the same. [edit. Actually. I did.] I knew that they were not identical, but I did not know what the detailed diference was.

According to my Gregories manual, & other sources,the US B210 version of the A13 uses a 77mm stroke, which is what I propose to use in this short deck block. I also know what's involved in geting it in there, & I somehow don't imagine that Datsun made shorter crown height pistons to achieve this, particularly when a couple of the many websites that I visited said that the 73mm A10, A12 & A13 pistons were interchangeable. [compression may vary] If the long stroke A13's pistons had the same, shorter, crown height as A15 pistons, it might work, but there are other problems to overcome.

If the rods were sufficiently short to stop the normal height piston [interchangeable with A10/A12 remember] from coming out of the top of the bore, there would be serious clearance issues at BDC between the piston skirt & the crank unless the counterweights were much closer in to the crank centerline, necessetating a special crank.

With a 73mm bore there could possibly be clearance issues between the rod & the side of the bore right at the bottom too.
Additionally, when the original rods from my A13 were used on an A14 crank [77mm stroke] in a 77mm bore size in a 1200 block [short deck] it was necessary to notch the bores on one side to clear the oiler on the side of the rods. No such notch exists in the smaller [76mm] bores of my A13 block, suggesting that it has never used the 77mm stroke of the US B210 version of the A13.

It is for these reasons that I have believed that this 73mm bore & 77mm stroke A13 is of the tall deck type as increasing the deck height is what Datsun did to accomodate the same, longer [77mm] stroke in the A14 engine.

My A13 engine, when initially dismantled, yeilded a set of what was basicly A14 pistons, [standard crown height] & it is at the standard 76mm bore size. It had a standard 70mm stroke crank in it & the rod length was the same as the A12 size, but of course,with the larger, 19mm wrist pin sized little end.

My own 1200 engine uses a [short deck] 1200 block, the standard 70mm stroke, stock length 1200 rods, & standard A14 pistons [76.5mm] & this basicly replicates the A13 engine that I have.

At this time, & based on the above evidence, I have concluded that there are two diferent A13's, but I am happy to absorb as much new information as I can find so as to finally sort this one out.

If anyone has an A13,... anywhere in the world, that they can photograph, &/or dismantle & measure, then I would be most pleased to hear from them.
Please click on my e-mail button & drop me a line.

Is it once again a case of text book vs actual hands on.

In the absence of hard & fast data, some of us try to apply logical thinking to the evidence provided by some limited physical [hands on] evidence, combined with 'textbook' evidence, & come up with a reasoned outcome.
This then is placed into a public forum for reasoned discussion.
Anyone can clearly see that this is not a case of one [physical evidence] 'versus' another [textbook evidence] but instead, a union of both.
Quote:
If you have something constructive to contribute, it will be most warmly embraced.

Quote:
Make note I asked a question, not made a statement as you quoted it.
Is my question not constructive?

The following is like what you would call a constructive statement, but I would call a story. Not unlike that of which you so often have contributed to threads in the past.

Constructive - a derivative of the word construct.
When I was young I had a LEGO set.
LEGO a brand of childrens building blocks.
I hated loseing pieces of my LEGO set.
So I numbered each piece A1, A2, A3 and so forth.
I called my LEGO set my A Series.
The box my A Series came in had pictures and showed 3 styles of Service Stations my A Series could be built into.
I however used to construct numerous things with my A Series.
Numerous - a derivative of the word number.
Once again hands on vs documentation.

I would like to title my story.
Building blocks, doin it by the numbers,
a constructive story by Phunkdoktaspok.

Quote:
I didn't think so.

Quote:
I didnt think so either.
Is that because there is nothing you can use to your gain from me?

you guys crack me up. When you get old you should both be put in the same retirement home so you can bicker and fight like old men, it would be so funny. As for the a13 I know a guy (he brought my coupe off me) who raced a Shellsport 1200 coupe with an a13 in it, they are around the place, but just not in large numbers.

i think phunk is trying to point out that the tech specs and the hands on details are two different things in this case - like happens so very often when it comes to engines.

like the 1UZFE - factory quotes 10.4:1 CR for pre-94 engines, actually closer to 10.1:1.

i don't think the initial post was sarcastic Dodgeman.

Here's what my Clymer's book says of the A13 (north american model):
bore: 73mm (same as the A12)
stroke: 77mm (same as the A14)

Note that the A12A is 70 stroke x 75 bore, so maybe your's is just 1mm overbore.

Perhaps my memory is fault about the deck height. Does anybody have a US-model A13 block handy that they can check? Peter Z would probably know.

Speaking of Peter, from what he says it looks like I was wrong about the deck height:Quote:gt-racecar.com/forums

This is what Peter wrote about both the '74 Datsun 210's A13 engine, & the A14/15


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A13 (1297cc) came in the first year only 1974 B210, 73x77. Rare. Shares crank with A14. It was the first "tall" deck height.

A14/15 (same block for A14 and A15) 76x77 for A14 and 76x88 for A15. The only A series block still at junk yards. These were the most common blocks, the only ones available without a stroke of luck.
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This would seem to confirm that the A14/15 blocks are dimentionally the same, even if they are not visually identical.

It also seems to confirm that the A13 found in the 1974 model of the US B210 very likely does in fact have a tall deck block, which matches with what I had concluded from the info at hand.
Due to its one-year-only production run, this 1974, US model B210 engine may yet prove to be the rarest of them all, unless this same basic engine was also used in fork lifts.

Thank you very much for that Ddgonzal, & lets hope that we can come up with a picture or two to lay this one to rest.

Quinn
As I had writen several times, the short deck A13 engine came from a production model car that must have been made in reasonably largre numbers, & there must be heaps of them out there, .......somewhere, however, they seem to be sufficiently uncommon that they have not shown up in any of the websites that I have managed to visit so far, so I have no idea just what models of Nissan/Datsun used them.
I suspect, however, that they may have been used in the B310 range, that was sold somewhere in the Asian market. If this is true, then this would make it a contemporary of the A12A, & it seems to differ from this engine only by virtue of it's 1mm larger bore size.

If anyone has access to an A13, [any A13] I would be most gratefull for the engine number, as well as a picture of the back of the block. Ferals engine & mine are only a relatively few thousand apart & both engine numbers end with an "A" Perhaps this is significant. [perhaps not]

The search for the facts goes on.

So the question arises is this a stroker motor then if so my friend has the 74 b210 a mile down the road from me. and yes it is a a13.

You bloody beauty mate.
If you can get the engine number & a photo that shows the back of the block that would be great.
Please also check the plate in the engine bay to see if this engine number matches the number on the plate. This will confirm that it is indeed an original 1974 B210 engine.

The part of the engine that I need to see is the part shown in the two pictures in an earlier post in this thread.

PM sent.

EDIT On further investigation it was found that an A14 had been swapped into this car some time earlier. Bummer.