Hey, there's a nice looking blue coupe at the site for $795.

Quote:Naw, didn't hear about Bathurst (this weekend was the NASCAR clincher -- that's stock cars for y'all down under), but I saw the Monaro on the cover of AutoWeek a few months ago, and thought it was pretty nice. Now that I know it won this big race -- and beat Porsche and Ferrari! -- I really want one.

Quote:No, but the in the new BMW 7 series the camshafts move up and down to control valve lift, and thus airflow. The engine doesn't even have a throttle!

Sorry, I missed rgrinder's post. We each sent one near the same time! SAE Net is at the flywheel, have to disagree there!

barpk, the rule of thumb for Datsun engines through the 70s was the bigger the engine, the more hp and torque. The exception is the dual carb engines.

Not too many have put L16s in their 1200s, but those that have said it was noticeably more powerful. You might try the search box on the left side here -- search for L16 and on the results page click "show all results". Then click "Next >>" There is some good stuff from way back in the forums.

Nobody said "at the wheels"

In the US it's net output of the engine, but with all the accessories on. This is measured at the engine, and doesn't take into account the transmission or differential.

That's one reason why the newer Corvette 300hp smallbock is faster than the old Corvette 370 hp smallblock. The hp rating is derived differently from 1970. Also that the the newer motor has more "torque/power under the curve" ... those lying hp figures! You can't trust 'em!

Going along with L18_B110's comment about engine life, Wright says F1 engine parts are designed to last about 2x the number of race laps! The 1986 BMW qualifying turbo engines only lasted a few laps at ~1200 bhp from a 1.5 liter engine! Of course, they only needed a few laps to qualify in top spot.

The point of the original posting was just interesting information on ultra-high rpm engines. The same principles apply to A-series engines though with far less importance. Reduced friction is a concern even in 10,000 rpm engines. Don't all the serious A-series racing engines have windage trays?

Then Dimlight had to go bashing horsepower ratings

Yes, a lot of generalization followed, but that's not necessarily bad ...
Quote:
Sorry for not qualifying this. I meant that if you put a bigger engine in -- generally -- you can drive the car the same way as before and it "goes faster" from both the perception of the driver and the stopwatch.

Compare that to putting the same size engine in, only a high-revving, idle-loping version. If you drive the same way (shifting at the same low RPM as the old motor) -- generally -- the increased potential of the modified engine isn't being taken full advantage of. So you adjust, keeping the engine up in its new powerband. Sometimes you even run out of revs before the end of the track, or need to shift sooner at certain corners ... hence gearing is more critical with a higher revving smaller engine. This is a generalization, but is it a myth?

Quote:Yes, another generalization. But isn't it generally true? Sure there are always exceptions. I was thinking of a 10,000 rpm motor (sometimes seen on the street) compared to a much bigger, but completely stock engine.

Quote:I wouldn't agree with the last necessarily, but haven't advertised horsepower figures influenced some people to buy a slower car because "it has more advertised hp"? I mean, which one of us faced with buying a new car wouldn't be tempted to choose the "205hp" engine over the "210hp" engine if they were the same cost? But that HP figure doesn't tell which car is faster in any specific situation.

Quote:I don't know offhand how the math works out ... but it sounds right in spirit.

The main point of the original post was that the same size engine revving can give better performance -- if engineered properly.

The point about a "torquey engine" is that a bigger lower-revving engine can push your car just as fast as a smaller higher-revving engine. It's just a generalization.

So somebody saying "my engine makes 125 hp" doesn't tell very much about the peformance it will give. Don't be misled by advertisements, etc.

The horsepower ratings are different for different countries for various reasons:

- US: SAE standard
- Europe: DIN standard
- Japan: yet another
- different emission controls

Take it all with a grain of salt. 70 HP in 1970 is about 60 hp in 1971 ratings. At least in the US, they measured gross hp (engine w/o accessories) before this, and net (engine with all accessories and exhaust system) after.

You may be right. I thought the VTEC changed the camshaft phase. It seems like all the auto makers have a variable valve timing system now. Some vary lift, some timing, and some both.

For a single-cam cylinder the cam can't be advanced/retarded as much -- just a few degress. I heard that VTEC moved the intake something like 50 degrees!

Quote:
So, aside from the humorous remark about towing, is there anything in this thread that is incorrectly stated?