you have to be kidding teretonga.the spoilers on that datsun are so small that it would need to do 200mph to make any difference to cornering or braking.your whole argument is fundamentally flawed.when you increase downforce you need more power to go the same speed,its called drag.look at f1 cars,its basic physics.so if converted put these on his car and it went faster,they either do nothing to increase downforce or he fitted a turbo at the same time.if he actually did go faster i would say its more to do with how he was driving.the difference between a good lap and a bad lap is just one missed apex or braking marker.not his crappy little wings.as for using flares to cover tyres when the cars track changes,that datsun in the picture looks as stock in width as they come.only one thing looks worse than flares,and thats when you fit them and the tyres dont come out past the standard wheel arch!race cars should be tubbed to fit larger tyres not butchered with bolt on lego blocks.

yeah rideyo dat383 we will see you on the track??? hey ??? bring out your fast tubbed car...by the way we are not talking about straight line racing either....the proof is always in the pudding...
so are you also saying that V8 supercars need to take their spoilers off or even sports sedans??? Are those cars always doing over 200mph for theri aero packages to take effect????

I'd have to agree with dat838 if you only use BASIC physics - as basic as increase downforce, decrease final top speed as the drag coefficient will change.

Once you leave high school physics and start looking at things like grip coefficients of tyres, torque curves of cars, and a number of slightly more than basic physics considerations you should be able to demonstrate that corner entry and exit speeds will increase - increasing lap times - as I don't think converted every reaches the top speed of his car on the race track.

Have a read of something more than basic physics and then you can make some more informed comments.

By your rational when a F1 car loses it's front or rear wing it will actually go faster - and this is clearly not the case.

At least you qualified that according to very BASIC physics you opinion could be supported - gave me the clue where you could spend some time learning more about race car dynamics. Look into grip, downforce and weight transfer next.

Please refrain from slagging lego blocks many of us grew up with them as children ,you just have to look at modern tech and see what lego has created .I think its back to the play-doh table for you ,even my dad said son there not lego blocks ther lego components ................

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see Improved Production Racing has rules about what you can and can't do to a car to make it faster, which is very different to street classes of drag racing. for example, a stroker 383 V8 would not be legal in a Datsun 1200, but that's OK, because no-one who had half a clue want to do that anyway. the rules prevent tubbing or modification of the inner wheel arch. but again, that's OK, because we have to try to get around corners too, unlike drag racing. How can I explain it for you? hmmm, corners are kinda like the things that link the drag strip to the return road. So if you have to build a car that can go as fast as possible around those things, a wider track is generally a useful thing. I can see how a drag racer would not see any advantage to it. Our rules allow flares of certain dimensions so we use them if we think it will be an advantage.

If you think the front of the white car above looks like standard track, I would recommend you stick to drag racing, because at least going straight ahead isn't all that difficult and might be the only place suitable for the vision impared petrolhead.

the front spoiler (or air dam) prevents alot of air from going under the front of the car which does 2 things:
1) prevents lift being generated
2) improves engine cooling by forcing more air up through the radiator and by creating a low pressure area under the engine bay for hot air to escape. When you are running more than 1320ft at a time, cooling become important.

The spoilers made a noticeable improvement to the handling of my 1200 at Lakeside when i first fitted them. The fast bumpy kink on the front straight and under the bridge at the back of the track were the main areas where the car felt alot more settled and was able to hold a slightly tighter line. It also increased the speed I could carry onto the front straight by roughly 500rpm if my memory is right. That was on street tyres, the difference would probably be even more marked on semi-slicks with the higher speeds they would carry through those turns.

If you think they don't do anything, ask your self why nearly all the front running cars make full use of the dimensions permitted for front and rear spoilers in the IPRA rulebook. And also ask yourself why the IPRA rulebook sets size limits to them if they do nothing anyway. You could also ask yourself, being a V8 man, why the Group C cars ran flares and spoilers. They only stopped using them in Group A because the rules didn't permit them. And then manufacturers released homologation models with front and rear spoilers to alllow them to be used in racing. Why goto that trouble if they do nothing for lap times?

anyway, enjoy your drag racing and powercruising... by the way, for those who only venture out onto a race track for powercruise, this is what they are really for - pushing 10/10ths through the corners, not lining up beside someone on the straights and trying to drag them off

Spot on Harry, couldn't agree more
Well done!!
Cheers

FIRSTLY,I DON'T WANT AN ARGUMENT ABOUT DRAG RACING VS CIRCUIT RACING.WE ALL KNOW WHICH IS BETTER.

SECONDLY,RULES ARE FOR STAMP COLLECTORS,THATS WHY THERE IS STREET
AND DRAG RACING,A MOTORSPORT MADE FOR THOSE WHO DON'T OR WON'T CONFORM TO RULES AND REGULATIONS.

SPOILERS AND WINGS DO WORK BUT ONLY ON HIGH SPEED CARS,LIKE V8 SUPERCARS OR FAST DRAG CARS.BUT THE DOWNFORCE GENERATED COSTS POWER AND SPEED, SO MORE POWER IS NEEDED IF YOU WANT TO GO FASTER.
I DON'T FIND THAT GOING AROUND CORNERS FAST IS A LOT OF FUN,OTHERWISE I'D HAVE A BIKE NOT A 4 CYLINDER 30 YEAR OLD WANNABE RACE CAR DATSUN.I PREFER POWERFUL ACCELERATION AND POWERSKIDS.THATS WHY I PUT A CHEV IN A DATSUN.POWERCRUISE IS NOT ABOUT GOING AROUND CORNERS FAST OR DOING A QUICK LAP.IN FACT IF YOU DO DRIVE TO FAST AROUND THE CORNERS AT POWERCRUISE YOU WILL BE SENT HOME.IT IS ABOUT BRINGING INSANLY OVERPOWERED CARS TO A TRACK AND SAFELY STREET RACE OTHER LIKE MINDED PEOPLE AND CARS.POWERCRUISE IS DOMINATED BY V8 MUSCLE BECAUSE IT SUITS THE EVENT.YOU PROBABLY DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS UNLESS YOU'RE INTO V8'S.ALL THE FASTEST CARS WERE V8.

UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN DRIVING A V8 600 HP METHANOL DATSUN 1200 AS IT RACES BLOWN BIG BLOCK CARS,TURNS THE TYRES HARD WHILE STILL DRIVING PAST THE GUY NEXT TO YOU.,THEN YOU REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE.HAVE YOU EVER BEEN TO POWERCRUISE?BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU REALLY ARE CLUELESS.IT HAS MORE INTEREST MORE ENTRANTS MORE POWER AND MORE SPECTATORS THAN YOU WILL SEE IN A WHOLE YEAR OF CRAPPY IPRA CIRCUIT RACING.

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I dont want to get into an argument either but have you ever been in a circuit car that is properly set up and driven by someone who knows what they are doing? ca18det_man's 1200 coupe goes around wakefield only 3.5 seconds slower than v8 super car time.

As I've said in another thread this week....is it school holidays at the moment?

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good for you

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I see, only works on V8's. what you don't seem to understand is we are talking about improving lap times. And it does work. downforce, or even just a reduction of lifting forces under the front wil result in increased grip and corner speed. that means it takes less time to go through the corners. also, the faster you go through a corner, the faster you come out of it, and the faster you will be at the end of the straight. and that means it takes less time to cover the straights. all of that adds up to faster lap times.

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then you'd be dissapointed because bikes don't handle as well as a half decent car.

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and that my very astute friend, is exactly why I pointed out the proper use of a racetrack for you. powercruise rubbish is a waste of a perfectly good circuit.

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sounds kinda pointless to me. and I'm not terribly impressed by big numbers. I have blown away a 600bhp V8 powered racecar at Morgan Park in my 30yo wannabe race car. My whole car was worth less than half his engine. that's gotta be kinda embarrasing.

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more people drink VB than Coopers. Doesn't make it better.