Is it here-say again? or actual dyno dynamics or some reputable non shootout mode results.
I can say I had an Fj20de that is making 200+hp and it would be more believable.

my understanding is that there is no such thing as an accurate dyno, as the whole theory of calculating power using a dyno is quite innaccurate by nature

therefore there is no such thing as a reputable dyno and thats just some crap termanology some dunce came up with to try to give the dyno he uses some credability on the street....

I could be wrong though

all we can do is go by what the dyno says and know that its somewhere in that ball park, and really it doesnt matter what dyno it is... kinda like the speedo in your car, only ever intended to be accurate within 10% of actual when manufactured

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIgnetRTmB0

Rick Bone's 1200 coupe watching from Kane Walmsley's Datsun 1600 (which claims 260hp n/a sr20de). 200+ hp easy.

Yes by atmo i meant atmosheric pressure, just another term for naturally aspirated that i have picked up from somewhere. Yes the question was refering to NA A15 motors, say running on like AV gas or something top shelf... not really talking about alcohol, and yeah say retaining original block and head hardware. So basically machine all you like and whatever NA intake and exhaust setup one would run. Yeah i'm not really buying 200hp NA... boosted perhaps.
Just more trying to get so me figures to relay to this certain friend to talk some sense into him, he had a datsun 1200 ute with a A15 and a set of twin webers and acts like he was doing wheel stands past GTR's.
Then on another subject he was talking about an idea he had lol....
And that was to " work " a datsun 1500 ute by pulling out the J15 motor and puting a A15 motor in it lol. Which i tried to explain to him that would be a bit of a waste of time as the 1500 ute weighs like 1320kg so you are kind of pushing #OOPS# up hill to begin with, so this would be no great upgrade. That and on paper from what i read the A15 has a total 3kw stock over the J15, so a engine transplant to gain 3kw, sounds like a lot of work for little gain lol.

i met steve newing. Hes very friendly and helpful, was great too meet him. i went too his workshop at speed technologies, a month ago when i was in melbourne.

I have no problem at all believing 200+ hp out of an a15 based engine. Probably stretched to a little more than 1600cc (a guess on my part) but frankly that wouldn't actually affect peak output quite as much as it would affect the nature of the powerband (and in general a broader powerband, even if it potentially cost a few hp, which in this case it wouldn't, but even if it did, it'd still be more useful and quicker on a circuit or rally and of course the street, than peak power.

People have gotten 180bhp out of toyota K series engines (afaik using 3k blocks which are a lot stronger than their 'equivalent" to our a15 - the 5K motor. Additionally, even though they are a slant motor, which due to the direction of the slant makes the ports 'semi downdraught' in angle vs the angle of the cylinders, the ports are considerably smaller, and even with development don't have the potential of stuff like the gx ports (or the a14/15 ovalports.

They were (based on what i've been shownm, though I haven't seen the engine in question, nor been in the car) breaking blocks to the point that they'd only do a handful of rallies before re-building with a new block as the basis.

Now if they can do that, then I've got no problem with more than 200bhp from 1.6ish litres.

Mini engines, which have vastly inferior heads, have run in excess of 150bhp in full race trim (and about 1500cc) . They surpassed 100bhp per litre in the late 60s - as much as 120bhp/litre (admittedly with the 970cc variants, which had the same bore as the 1275s but much shorter stroke, so obviously more power per litre was possible, but anyway). Some of the fords (I forget who made the heads - I think lotus, but I've had a mental block) 4 cylinders did some impressive power per litre, even though they had OHC, in cold hard analysis they probably had less modification potential than the datsun 2 valve heads for comparison sake.

The problem with going for massive NA power levels is always the same - it involves higher and higher rpm, which means you need to run diff gears (and by extension closer ratio gearbox gears if you can get them) both of whch make it less fun on the street. A quick word on gearbox ratios - imagine an engine that peaks at 4000rpm (a little low but I used it for the sake of example) and you upshift, and it drops the rpms to 3000rpm, a 1000rpm. If you had the same gearbox on an engine that you need to upshift at 8000rpm, with the same gear spread, it'll drop to 6000rpm, a 2000rpm drop. now that's bad in and of itself, but when you consider the fact that generally the higher rpm the powerband/upshift rpm the narrower the powerband is for an engine, so it's in far more trouble and likely to drop below it's powerband even with the gears, so you need a much closer ratio spread than initially it might seem to need. Then you have the problem that the closer all the ratios are, whilst the engine will work a lot better with them, well it narrows down the possible road speeds where the gears can work. If you can only jump up small increments in each ratio, you either need to start with a tall first gear, which stuffs up launch off the line, and potentially any really low speed corners, or if it's ok for that, you run out of gears at teh other end of a long straight, making it less optimal for higher speed circuits. then if you have a circuit with both a long straight and 1 or 2 really tight low speed corners, you are essentially in trouble. THe answer for most racing classes is of course to add more gears. Unlike many streeters where 5th and or 6th is a ridiculously high overdrive, for economy or emissions purposes, you'd end up with (maybe) a 1:1 top gear ratio still, but the first gear ratio would be more lke a 'std' box, but with enough ratios in between (6 gears, or more in stuff like f1, but that's getting too far off track) that the engine can be kept in its sweet spot all the way through. Incidentally that's why you'll find there are indeed aftermarket ratio sets for a bunch of gearboxes so that racers can convert a factory 5 or 6 speed into a close ratio race suited gearbox. Not cheap, but available.

Sory for the tangent, but to get back to why I went off course - in contrast if you use a supercharger or turbo, even a relatively modest setup (still not dirt cheap, but reasonable) will be able to match the greatest NA race engine for power if you wanted it to. It will do it at a lower rpm, with the same power, but far more torque, which means it'll work well with a more street oriented ratio spread (the torque of the motor being able to break some gearboxes and the need to go to something like the 71 series notwithstanding) and tall diff ratios (lower numerical ratio) with ease. Thet engine will absolutely leave an NA engine for dead for street driving, and anything even remotely to do with towing/heavy load carrying.

Naturally enough though, with the relative ease of forced induction, a lot of purists have more respect for those who can get really incredible outputs out of naturally aspirated engines, not having to 'cheat' to get a fantastic result, and I can certainly understand that and have respect for anyone going that route, and the amount of work and dedication it entails.

100hp/litre from any older (eg. single cam, two valve) is impressive.

If you're making more than that, you are one of the following:

misled or mistaken as to how much power your engine actually makes
lying about how much power your engine actually makes
rich (or, now very broke!)
the owner of an engine that is compromised.

A lot of people will claim more but at the end of the day either they're wrong or they have engines that are very targeted. An older engine that makes in excess of 100hp/litre atmo will be expensive, thirsty, unreliable, and cranky.

Also you may HAVE more than 100hp/litre but are you going any faster? Torque curve vs hp band often reveals the lies of peak figures.

Also bear in mind the application, longevity and fuelling can impact outputs; if you have it in a 400kg car with crazy gearing you can have more aggressive timing & compression on the same fuel, plus also if it's that kind of car you can often run tricky fuel and make more power again.

100hp/litre, and enjoy it. Any more and you're trying too hard...

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My CA18DET came with a dyno sheet for 256rwhp. I then made some improvements that gave a good seat-of-the-pants gain (is more wheelspin!), including an increase in boost, and put it on the dyno at a local shop... and made 252rwhp. So, after a few basic modifications & improvements and a small increase in boost, my car apparently made less power.

The only way to get a relatively accurate reading is to weigh the car and then go for a trip down the quarter mile. Why weigh it first? You might be surprised one way or the other. My 120Y is 100+kg heavier than I expected. Once you've weighed it (local tip / waste station has a weighbridge, otherwise just search for a public weighbridge if they won't let you get on theirs for two seconds) head off to a test'n'tune or similar at the local dragstrip.

This is one of the better horsepower/weight calculators. The first one will estimate your quarter mile time and trap speed, the second one will estimate your power based on your vehicle's weight and your quarter mile time OR trap speed. Bear in mind that ETs will always be lower than you can run, as they're based off a near-perfect run... but the MPH will be spot on, nd the ET will be spot on too actually but you'll need aperfect run!

http://www.dragsource.com/index.php?n ... =calculators&calctoview=5
http://www.dragsource.com/index.php?n ... =calculators&calctoview=4

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speaking of which call me on the mobile, Ive tried many times already.

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I agree it's hard to believe, but I have seen the car and I must say after you see how well it goes it becomes a fair bit easier to believe.
As for proof, why would the owner bother trying to prove it on internet forums? What is there to gain? It is the fastest 1600cc car in NZ and has won the 1600cc class in SS2000 for several seasons, and that's the reason racers build these engines that forum junkies say can't be built, they don't build them to boast on the internet.
The people that say it can't be done were probably never going to do it anyway.