|
|
Browsing this Thread:
1 Anonymous Users
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
Home away from home 
Joined: 2003/1/13 13:39
From Forsby Finland
Group:
Registered Users
|
I read that Lemonhead has bored a A14 block to 82mm, thats impressive! Hope he will give me som answers! If he has managed to bore it to 82mm then 79mm want be any problem.... Here is a Dyno chart of my current engine http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p3 ... igan/Datsun_100A_dyno.jpg
Posted on: 2010/9/10 9:46
|
_________________
I am building a mean Datsun E10 racer  , a15 turbocharged engine, aiming for 280hp....
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster) 
Joined: 2003/12/3 7:56
From Christchurch NZ
Group:
Registered Users
|
Long time no posts Marcus! I often wondered how you were getting on. I think if you're going to go that far oversize in the bore and run boost then you're going to need to at least partly fill the water jackets. So long as you don't go overboard, the engine will still be useable. I did read somewhere that large overbores (Albeit on big old 6's) the wall gets too thin, and actually alows it to deflect. This allows more blowby to get passed the rings, and results in less power than the same engine with a smaller bore would make. Add boost to the equation, and one would tend to think that such a problem would be exacerbated.(spelling?) That said also, they were including in that analogy the reduction in bore thickness resulting from corrision. Given you get pretty harsh winters it'd be safe to assume that not many motors get used for extended periods without Antifreeze (?) unlike can (and does) happen in warmer climates.
Posted on: 2010/9/11 0:03
|
|
_________________
Forced Induction! Because everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gunfight!
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
Home away from home 
Joined: 2004/1/1 7:57
From Brisbane
Group:
Registered Users
|
The block that I have had bored to suit 82mm pistons has had a sleeve put in numbers 1 and 4 cylinders and 2 and 3 bored in original material. This would work, but I am not happy with the arrangement of the bores, no.'s 1 and 4 have been moved to the front and rear of the block and 2 and 3 closer to the centre a bit. This has not given me the bore spacing/combustion chamber alignment that I wanted for the twin cam head nor a A-series head. So, what I am doing now hopefully is what I originally wanted and that was a full wet sleeve block, I say hopefully because I have a dummy block at my machinist shop to see if we can do it, he's a 'can do' type of bloke and he can't see why we couldn't do it. With the type of sleeves we are planning on using we can incorporate a raised ring around the bore (about 1mm high) to act as an O ring type of arrangement, with the sleeve thickness, 82mm is just the beginning of bore sizes, it will be interesting to see what size I can go to, coupled with the 88mm stroke crank I should be able to get some good capacity out of a little ol' 1400 block, 88mm x 85mm is 1997cc I have recently acquired Feral's A13 raised port race head to intially put on the motor while I keep working on the twin cam, I have literally worn out my huge race head which is currently on rally car. So if the wet sleeving does work, even with a 82mm stroke crank some good capacity can be achieved and to answer the theme of the thread - yes be perfect for high boost applications. I will keep you posted. D - From the other thread, I can build you whatever combination you desire  Marcus - I ran a 79mm n/a motor for a long time with no problems, had the block sonic tested and bored to suit, I like your signature, I guess I'm building honest 200hp n/a A-series motor.
Posted on: 2010/9/11 0:45
|
|
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster) 
Joined: 2002/10/28 6:49
From under the Firmament LOL no twiglight effect BS
Group:
Registered Users
|
Gary, Orger engines here in Vic also looked at my a12 block for a wet sleeve conversion like that of the over-engineered Renault Sierra motors from the 50s mid eighties Renault 5 GT etc (code name C6J). They said they could do it but would need a step at the base for an o-ring or sealant and would need to cut up a block to see if there is enough material there for the wet sleeve to be a success. I figured I would need to make an investment in special sleeves like the Darton kind or other and that would mean 800-1200 just for the billet sleeves. If I could use modded cheap second hand cast iron ones from the renault or peugeot as they are often perfect for rebuilds with a re-hone and laying them on their sides for them to go back to round from oval. A common practice with frog freaks.
Posted on: 2010/9/11 2:58
Edited by D on 2010/9/11 3:18:15
|
|
_________________
"Australia" is formed by all its geographically listed territories "including" Norfolk, Christmas & Cocos Islands. The word include excludes all else before it therefore you have no legal rights.
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
Moderator 
Joined: 2001/5/3 7:04
From 48 North
Group:
Registered Users Contentmaster Usermaster
|
The other 200HP A-series are not strokers, but are running high RPM (excess of 10,000 RPM) with highly modified heads with raised/fabricated ports. 
Posted on: 2010/9/11 6:16
|
|
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
Home away from home 
Joined: 2003/1/13 13:39
From Forsby Finland
Group:
Registered Users
|
It feels so nice that some here still remembers me.... There has been so much going on in my life the past years that I havenīt had time to visit this site! I have built a house for me and my family, a warm garage for my wife, a separate hobbygarage for my Datsuns.... on the top of that I was blessed to get twins, a girl and a boy  But I have never given up my hobby and love for the Datsuns! Marcus Quote: A14force wrote: Long time no posts Marcus! I often wondered how you were getting on. I think if you're going to go that far oversize in the bore and run boost then you're going to need to at least partly fill the water jackets. So long as you don't go overboard, the engine will still be useable. I did read somewhere that large overbores (Albeit on big old 6's) the wall gets too thin, and actually alows it to deflect. This allows more blowby to get passed the rings, and results in less power than the same engine with a smaller bore would make. Add boost to the equation, and one would tend to think that such a problem would be exacerbated.(spelling?) That said also, they were including in that analogy the reduction in bore thickness resulting from corrision. Given you get pretty harsh winters it'd be safe to assume that not many motors get used for extended periods without Antifreeze (?) unlike can (and does) happen in warmer climates.

Posted on: 2010/9/11 7:27
|
_________________
I am building a mean Datsun E10 racer  , a15 turbocharged engine, aiming for 280hp....
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
Home away from home 
Joined: 2003/1/13 13:39
From Forsby Finland
Group:
Registered Users
|
This is so much help, thank you guys! Seems like I have to use sleeves in my engine setup to get the reability that I am aming for. I am not aiming for a high boost engine, rather a high comp engine that produces much power at relatively low boost. I am planning to use a Garret GT25R turbo. One of my mates who has a SR20 in his Cherry/Pulsar producing massive 915hp at 42psi boost hasnīt had any problems with the bottomend since he mounted Darton sleeves in the block, and itīs not o-ringed! www.woken.se/wok/2007/dyno_feb07/bromspapper_ras.jpg He has driven 9,54 on the quartermile...... A 2 litre A14 would be really crazy, in my setup I would get problems with the bottom end and the oil-pan... the 82mm crank fits without problem but there are no space left... I canīt use a deeper oil-pan because of the gearbox sitting underneath the engine! Please keep me uptodate, I will send post and pictures during my project! M Quote: Lemonhead wrote: The block that I have had bored to suit 82mm pistons has had a sleeve put in numbers 1 and 4 cylinders and 2 and 3 bored in original material.
This would work, but I am not happy with the arrangement of the bores, no.'s 1 and 4 have been moved to the front and rear of the block and 2 and 3 closer to the centre a bit. This has not given me the bore spacing/combustion chamber alignment that I wanted for the twin cam head nor a A-series head.
So, what I am doing now hopefully is what I originally wanted and that was a full wet sleeve block, I say hopefully because I have a dummy block at my machinist shop to see if we can do it, he's a 'can do' type of bloke and he can't see why we couldn't do it.
With the type of sleeves we are planning on using we can incorporate a raised ring around the bore (about 1mm high) to act as an O ring type of arrangement, with the sleeve thickness, 82mm is just the beginning of bore sizes, it will be interesting to see what size I can go to, coupled with the 88mm stroke crank I should be able to get some good capacity out of a little ol' 1400 block, 88mm x 85mm is 1997cc
I have recently acquired Feral's A13 raised port race head to intially put on the motor while I keep working on the twin cam, I have literally worn out my huge race head which is currently on rally car.
So if the wet sleeving does work, even with a 82mm stroke crank some good capacity can be achieved and to answer the theme of the thread - yes be perfect for high boost applications.
I will keep you posted.
D - From the other thread, I can build you whatever combination you desire 
Marcus - I ran a 79mm n/a motor for a long time with no problems, had the block sonic tested and bored to suit, I like your signature, I guess I'm building honest 200hp n/a A-series motor.
Posted on: 2010/9/11 7:53
|
_________________
I am building a mean Datsun E10 racer  , a15 turbocharged engine, aiming for 280hp....
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
Home away from home 
Joined: 2003/1/13 13:39
From Forsby Finland
Group:
Registered Users
|
One of my mates who owns a speedshop maxported a A-series cylinderhead for me, the result was IN180hp EX110hp! He used 40mm intake and 32 exhaust valves and made a compromise between high gasspeed and airflow, the bottom of the intakeport was raised with epoxy but he managed those figures without welding. I havenīt tested the head yet so I donīt know how it works but he was very impressed by the numbers, especially the ratio between gasspeed/airflow! He uses a Superflow flowbench! I am dreaming about a +200hp N/A A-series engine in my rallysprint 1200! Marcus Quote: ddgonzal wrote: The other 200HP A-series are not strokers, but are running high RPM (excess of 10,000 RPM) with highly modified heads with raised/fabricated ports.

Posted on: 2010/9/14 18:46
|
_________________
I am building a mean Datsun E10 racer  , a15 turbocharged engine, aiming for 280hp....
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster) 
Joined: 2003/12/3 7:56
From Christchurch NZ
Group:
Registered Users
|
A cylinder head with those number will sing when fitted to a boosted motor! I can only dream of having a head that flows like that.
Posted on: 2010/9/15 6:39
|
|
_________________
Forced Induction! Because everyone knows you don't bring a knife to a gunfight!
|
|
|
Re: A14/15 turbo~280hp, bore question |
|
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster) 
Joined: 2003/6/27 14:53
From Southern Tablelands N.S.W. Australia
Group:
Registered Users
|
Quote: ddgonzal wrote: -- use a sonic tester to locate the thinnest portion of the wall and then bore accordingly. That's what they do with early A12 engines when doing large overbores (early engines have thinner cylinder walls).
That hasn't been my experience. Datsun supplied 76mm pistons from its race parts catalogue to allow the 1200 engines to run to the limit in the 1300cc classes. The factory race manual makes no real reference to special testing of the bores before boring for these pistons, so they must have been confidant that these engines have plenty of meat in the cylinders. My own engine was bored to 76mm back in the early 80's & run till it plain wore out, so I bored it to 76.5mm & ran it for many years in that form. A local fellow wanted an A14 stroker crank in his 1200 engine which requires the use of A15 pistons, however the only available set that was available for a very low price was at the max oversize [1.5mm] which meant that the 1200 block was bored straight out to 77.5mm & this engine took a flogging for quite a while. It currently is held in storage & is in 100% serviceable condition. No bore testing has been done on any 1200 engine that has been punched out to 76mm that I have been personally involved with & I have seen more than a few over the last 30 years. None have suffered from cylinder wall problems apart from one that developed a water leak when the rod went through the side of the bore. In my experience the 1200 most certainly does not have thinner cylinder walls than any other of the 'A' series engines
Posted on: 2010/9/15 15:06
|
|
_________________
Love your Datsun. Treat it well.
|
You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.
|