Back in December, Edmunds asked the question,
Quote:

I said bring back the Datsun 1200, among other posts were, errr non-mechanical types challenged me to my statements.

Anyone wishing to read them, here's the combination, [I hope]

1- Edmunds
2 - On the Blue bar, click "Forums"
3 - Click "If I were an auto manufacturer, my New Year's resolution would be...
Read how our members finish this sentence!
Full Discussion

My post regarding the Datsun 1200 is no. 28

Postings regarding my opinion regarding the A-Hole US Corporate butchering of the auto industry and other thoughts are;
Posts No. 10, 11, 26, 30

[I tried 5 times to post a direct link, but THANKS to Edmunds, they have weird code that don't work in the URL world that EVERYONE else uses!

Read no further in THIS thread, unless you wish to hear the rantings of a Mad Man :)

You may note my postings regarding the TBI injection system.
Some years back, I saw a vid of the "Presley" Formula 1 Engine Fire-up
dunno if it was a Peugeot, Renault or who, possibly Pressley was the owner or engine builder.

Anyway, it was a V-8 w/ Eight TBI injectors, the throttle bore looked to be 2" or better. Just like the GM TBI system, at idle a minute funnel of mist hit the outside of the throttle plate.
A blip of the throttle, resulted in a garden hose of fuel blasting into the engine.

A stuttering idle of 5500~rpm to 17,500rpm took a micro-second
Before seeing this, I thought F1 cars were powered by Four Cylinder Engines !
Here's a vid of some F1 engine, I DID NOT WATCH IT as I'm on dial-up, I hope it is something relevant to my theme.
Formula 1 Engine Fire-Up, I HOPE !

My assertion of the TBI is that there is TIME for the fuel to atomize, unlike port or direct injection systems.

Wth the injector far away from the valve, port volume, mixture velocity, rebound variances, and torque curve can be modified simply by making the runner longer, shorter, smaller or larger.
[example, 50's Chrysler Cross-Ram tuned manifold w/Side Draft Carbs]

One designer put it this way.
"GM's TBI system is TOO Reliable, Too Simple, Too Easy to diagnose so it Had to go"

The next system was the CPI [Central Port Injection] [4.3 W-Motor],
This unit fired ALL injectors at One time,, just how is that an "improvement" ?

BANNED in California for horrible emissions, and economy only the 4.3 Z-Engine was allowed in CA.

My allegation at Edmunds, is that Corporate America has One objective, making money, damn the life of the vehicle, damn the environment and who cares about economy

Very Rusty Wrench

qft!

For those with limited time, I copied my main ideas, which were Post No. 11
Here goes;

Since the "real" MPG engines and methods are bought and stored by Corporate America, let's use some existing hardware.
This is all Junk we presently have, in production, with the bugs worked out.

1- All engines shall have One TBI [Throttle Body Injector per Cylinder
[IF it's good enough for Formula 1, put it on the road.

2 - All engines TBI manifolds shall be "tuned" like the Cross Ram Chrysler Wedge Motor
this builds torque at low rpm, and allows time for the mixture to completely atomize.

3 - All engines shall have ONE Oxygen Sensor per Cylinder, what's this crap putting a SINGLE O2 sensor on a multi-cylinder engine and getting an "average" air-fuel ratio ?

4 - Each Cylinder shall have independent timing & Air/Fuel mix controlled by the O2 sensor & ECM/PCM

5. All engines shall have a"Heat-Riser" valve for back pressure control. at low engine speeds, increased "back-pressure" builds torque,higher RPM and increased throttle demand, they open as necessary, ECM/PCM Controlled .

6 - All engines shall have insulation on the exhaust manifold to the catalytic converter for faster "Flame-On"

7. Catalytic converters shall be installed as close to the head as possible, minimizing the "Flame-on" time.

8 - All engines shall have variable valve timing.

9 - Engines shall be equipped with an Oil Debris monitor to keep the VVT operative.

10 - All cars shall be dimpled, like a Golf Ball to decrease drag, see Myth-busters for stats, Clean Car=26.4, 1084 golf ball dimples=29.6 mpg.

11 - All cars shall be equipped with shaped front air dams to reduce the drag [Cd] and to route airflow away from the front tires.

12 - All cars shall be made with under-body panels and side skirts to reduce drag.

13 - All cars shall be made with grill shutters like old diesel trucks and the Cruze ECO

14 - All engines will use hot air from the exhaust manifold instead of outside air, when ambient temps allow.

15 - Engines should be made with thicker and Sodium Filled Valves to allow for higher combustion temperatures and run at lower RPM's.

16 - Outside mirrors should be replaced with mini camera's and inside monitors to reduce drag, as well as "back-up" camera's and waring tones for objects behind the vehicle.

17 - Overall vehicle weight should be reduced, optional fancy components[power windows, seats etc] replaced with stronger A-Pillars and B-Pillars

18 - Ethanol / Alcohol fuel additives shall be replaced by other chemicals that do NOT require farmer subsidy, giving Monsanto yet another stronger foot hold on the economy.

19. Diesel Automobile EPA restrictions shall be relaxed to allow the burning of B-100 Bio-Diesel as long as it comes from sources that are NOT subsidized by the US Govt.
If the EPA will NOT relax the "too-much, too-soon" standards on Auto diesel engines,
then an in-tank monitor shall be installed to inform the ECM/PCM of the percentage of Bio-Diesel and perform DPF Burn-Off procedure's accordingly.

20 - The Last, [aren't you glad] TO THE BIG-3 and Everyone Else Making Cars.
We do NOT care about 300, 400 or more Horsepower, Except "performance" cars of course.

We DO care about, torque to get to road speed and mostly, MILES-PER-GALLON

And quit making those crap transmissions on FWD cars, Please..

Rusty Wrench

epilogue, comments like this can result in 'accidents'
Rudolph Diesel wanted his engine to operate of the Bio-Diesel of the time, his arguments were met with silence, as he was soon to meet his early demise.

cant stand Monsanto scum of the Earth!!!

You got that right.

Japan is one of the few nations that do not allow GM crops or other Growth Hormones etc etc to be imported,

Their view is the US is a "testing" ground and Japan is waiting to see what happens to the children.

well the nuke industry is also tied in there so
I think the Jps will be waiting for the strontium
iodine and cesium also to see its effects.
Banks banks banks scum of the earth BNP Paribas.

OK having owned and worked on both new and old cars, like most folks here I will say that newer cars are without a doubt better built and have much improved service intervals. My wife's 2010 Hyundai SUV weighs about the same as a Ford Galaxy (sp) get twice the gas milage, corner and stops better..............sure they could be better BUT at a certain point it's cost prohibitive. Additionally car companies that don't make a profit don't employ people.

Now I'm keenly aware of the likes of ADM making bank on putting food in our gas tanks but that doesn't change the facts that despite our love of old Datsuns new cars are better and over the long haul will be cheaper to run...................I work with at least 3 people that have 250K on thier camry's.....................basically I can build a wazoo fast Miata race car way cheaper than any Datsun.

As far as the legendary car tha tgets 150MPG and the like, IF a company had one don't you think they would sell it? They would put the competition out of business pure and simple. Building a new car is tough, all the crash protection people have come to expect adds weight (hence why new cars are so heavy). Americans have come to expect a car with serious power but it still needs to get 18-22 MPG...............try that with an old 396 Chevelle.

OK my .02 point of view........................interesting topic though.

Tom

Tom, my posting, though rambling and waay too long.

It was supposed to imply that we [I] wanted an alternative to the "Micro-Car" and the Datsun 1200 with modern electronics would be a nice option.

Datsun's back in my day had cast iron rings, unlike Toyota who copied Chrysler with Chrome faced rings for a "fast-break-in" period.

Lots of old Datsun freaks here got well over 200k mi without rebuild.

Not to say modern cars are inferior, I'm only saying "make a simpler auto"

Thanks for reading this mess
Rusty Wrench

I agree Datsun umm Nissan should make a cheap run about.
At least a commercial vehicle that scores 1 start more
than Gran Wall Motors ute.
I personally would love an A10 with efi in a composite
bodied coupe that can be rebodied into a ute if need be.
Something similar to an old beetle chassis with padded
rollcage for added strength that acts like the frame for
panels to bolt on to or skin to sit on.
The old English cars of the Trabant brand come to mind.
Also can be something like the tube framed overpriced atom but more like this one.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f-yNhfYNz3c ... 0/7YrfABZHFJk/s1600/5.jpg

OK now I get it.

Well for starters SCCA is now running B-Spec racing class: Mazda2, Ford Fiesta, Toyota Yaris, Fiat 500, Honda Fit & Nissan Versa.

I'd looked at the Mazda2 and it seemed reasonable, not cheap but reasonable.

I'll go back to part of my first post, most Americans like big cars, so we'll see how the market for sporty little cars does.

Now our 1200's could be cool with modern ignition and port fuel injection and all the latest gadgets................of course many people here have done that already.

Tom