I'm not trying to be negative but a 1200 with 120rwhp won't beat many WRXs or decent V8s mate. If you're on a tight budget why not fit a CA18DE? You can pick these up from the Silvia boys looking to upgrade quite cheaply. These motors have 90kw, decent torque and injection from the factory. Down the track you can fit extractors, an exhaust, cams, up the compression, port the head and have it retuned for a nice gain.

Rallycar - I wouldn't imagine 100rwkw will see you anywhere near the mid 13's mate which is what you will need to be capable of to keep with an LS2 equipped Commodore. Even the current SS does a 14.1 second quarter mile two up!

Not trying to spoil anyone's dreams but be realistic about what you're aiming for. Even the current base spec Falcon has 190kw.
Regards Matty

BA falcons are quite heavy (1700kg +)

talking of holden engines hows this a 69 model 5.7 putting out 223kw standard (thats 39.1 kw / litre) the new ls2 6.0 litre is making 295 kw(not much improvment for 36 years) witch is 49kw / litre while the good old 1200 has 42.5 kw/ litre an the gx had 50.8 kw/ litre

if i was to convert to a CA18de why not just go turbo? still goin to do tunnel mods an a stack of other stuff

ps can you tell i havent much time for holdens

Quote:
I have seen some pretty powerfull engines, some blown big blocks on nitrous that were NOT in the car yet, and they were all as slow as a wet weekend.

If you are low on coin, then install the A14, give it a bloody good tune up & be damned happy with what you get from it, whatever it delivers.

Yes, BA Falcons are heavy but they will still cut a mid 15 second quarter mile two up which is quite quick for a family sedan. Anyway, I was just using that as an example. Also, keep in mind how understressed the LS2's are.

I suggested the atmo CA for budget reasons. Obviously you could upgrade to the turbo motor later if funds permit. The mods to fit the atmo CA aren't insurmountable nor expensive and the actual cost of the motor and gearbox will be much cheaper than what you could build an A series that would produce similar power levels for. In addition to this the CA will be a nicer thing to drive due to the extra cubes and factory nature.

Anyway, it's all food for thought. But if the reason why you want to fit a new motor is to beat 8's and WRXs then you will need more than 120rwhp.
Regards Matty

p.s. Dats-hot - excellent advice mate.

there's always the old L series... I put an L20b in my ute for under $1000. plenty of torque for the street.

at the moment its a dead stock motor with single dd webber and extractors/2" exhaust. That keeps up with a 5.0 v8 commodore up to around 100km/h. Add a cam and some headwork, and you'll see some significant hp gains again.

as far as installation, have a look here:
L series into 1200

Matty - you must have missed how light a 1200 is, with 100rwkw it is the equivalent power to weight ratio as a stocko XR6T or LS1 commode with about 200rwkw, so therefore it should be roughly as quick.

Yes it wont beat decent examples, but if you are only aiming for stockers it'll be ok.

Ash - I haven't missed how light 1200s are mate. I own one too, and have used it's excellent power to weight ratio on many occasions mainly on the race track but also on the drag strip. I am simply pointing out that saying you will beat ANY stock Commodore with 100rwkw is not going to happen unless the Commodore driver is an absolute gorilla. I'm not trying to ruin people's dreams but when you are building a car to enjoy in a `spirited' fashion you need to set realistic goals. If that is your goal you will need more power and plenty of grip off the line IMHO.

Also, I don't agree with saying `a 1200 is half the weight so it needs only half the power'. There are many factors that will make a car quick off the line and through the traps - tyres, diff type, diff ratio, gear ratios, clutch condition etc, etc, etc. I know you weren't saying that this is a hard and fast rule but I'm pointing out that most 1200 owners are still running open diffs and 4 speed boxes and, possibly, not the stickiest rubber or freshest clutches.

At the end of the day the last generation and current spec Falcodores, WRXs etc are very quick straight out of the box. Grab a copy of Wheels or Motor and have a read of the comparison tests and check the specs at the back of the mags. While these sorts of cars are not my cup of tea I think it is important to respect and understand what they are capable of.

I love watching small capacity cars knock over big cube sedans as much as any other small car owner but choose your prey wisely.
Matty

matty - i thought you said you have been to the drags???????????

doesn't sound like it to me..........

half weight = half power required, it holds very true at the drags

i say it because ive done it, even with 75rwkw i pissed off some big power commodores and even a couple of motorbikes

and theres a bunch of fellas with stock CA18's in 1200s killing all commodores (even so called 300kw ones are easy for them)

and go_the_datto was doing with an open diff h145, stock suspension and piece of crap 13" tyres all round (obviously the diff didnt last many runs, but he did it)


300kw at the fly = approx 225 at the wheels
the commodores are also 1000kg heavier than the 1200 (over twice the weight)
and if you belive the power figure to begin with then there's your issue

i personally havent seen a stock commodore (ss, hsv, 300kw etc) go under 14 that i can remember

Rallycar - Ease up there mate. You will notice that every post I have made on the subject I have simply suggested that when setting power goals to beat specific cars you need to be realistic. I am not being rude to you in any way, shape or form.

Saying that half the power/half the weight holds true is NOT always the case as there are too many variables. Do you think a FWD Lancer with exactly the same engine would be as quick as an Evolution model? No, because the 4WD driveline gives more traction off the line. The FWD one would be lighter but it would still be slower over 400 metres. A quick example off the top of my head of two factory cars that support this are the 200SX and Holden Astra turbo. Both cars had 147kw, similar final drive ratios and similar kerb weights. The result - the 200SX is significantly quicker over 400 metres.

You then made the point that stock CA Datsuns are beating Commodores. Fair point but I'm yet to see a stock CA produce only 100rwkw in a Datsun. Every CA ute I have ever seen has been fitted with a pod filter, front mounted intercooler and exhaust during the build stage. This leads to the inherent factory restrictions being removed and higher power levels being attained. So I don't believe you are comparing apples with apples in that regard.

You suggested that I have a problem because I believe the power figures being produced by Falcadores, WRXs etc. A few issues ago one of the main Australian motoring magazines tested the entire range of performance vehicles from Ford and Holden including the HSV and FPV vehicles. For the most part the dyno figures were correct. In another article a HSV Commodore V8, WRX STi and Evo IX were dynoed and again the results were realistic. I have also personally seen several of the performance cars you are wishing to beat put on dynos before mods were performed and again the power figures were correct.

You have then stated that you've never seen a stock Commodore go under 14 seconds yet I have clearly stated that in a previous post they have. Just quickly flicking through the December issue of Wheels reveals that EVERY current spec HSV (except for the Coupe4) does the 400 metre dash in between 13.3 and 13.5 seconds. The old LS1 SS Commodore does it in 14.1 (this car now has a detuned LS2 which should see it also dip into the 13's). As I suggested you may want to take a peek at a car magazine at some stage to take stock of your goals.

Pager - I'm sorry that this issue has taken over your original thread mate. I really only wanted to offer you some advice on your power and competition goals. An L series motor has been suggested as a budget alternative. I think when you do the sums this option is exceptional value for money.

Regards Matty

Quote:

Yeah, you're right about there being many variables, but I think you forgot one. Instead of putting the motor in FWD car, just turn the Evo into a RWD and see what happens. A 2wd car loses a lot less power in the drive-train then a 4wd. And 4wd's dont launch as well as you think when there's a bit of power involved. Too much RPM or clutch-riding and you have a slipping clutch for the rest of the run (and probably the rest of the night), too little RPM and they bog down and take a few seconds to get going. Damn, my 1600 used to kill very fast WRX's off the line.

Matty's got a good point in that there are too many variables too say "half the weight/half the power" and 1200rc also has a good point in that he has raced the cars in question on proper drag-strips.

My advice on the original question....Go the A15 and have some fun, maybe just find some webers that you can sell again later, until you save up to do a conversion properly, because a budget conversion can be more trouble than its worth.