AMEN ... tara u put it how it is .... i agree with u 100%

Hey D-man,

OK ill tell u right now I agree with u 100%. But you're going way to overboard with trying to make people understand. People think what they want and there is no way you're going to change it. No matter how much research u do, no matter how hard u try. Everyone is stubborn minded no matter what they say. So when they put there foot down on such things as the difference between a

good call...

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don't think it really matters when the tray back name was first used, i think my theory still holds, which basically means we draw... (if we don't, we'll still be arguing about this when the event is on....)

hope we haven't scared anyone off coming to the event

[edit] i don't want to appear ignorant, i respect all of your views. Its obvious that there are many varying views on this subject, and there are not many (if any) absolute definitions around, which specify exactly the answer to our question here.
At least next time you hear about the event "Dog in a Ute" you all know what their definition of ute is.

Lmao !!!!

D-man Thanks for the fun. But I think that we call this one a draw!!!!


Cheers

Blair

I don't think I have ever heard the term "car truck" used to describe an El Camino / Ranchero. The term "El Camino" is usually used to describe any El Camino style vehicle.

Are you guys arguing about legal definitions or terms used in everyday conversation?

Legal:
" Hey friend #1, can I borrow your passenger-car-based-vehicle-with-an-exposed-cargo-area to pick my new sofa?"
"Sorry friend #2, my wife is using my passenger-car-based-vehicle-with-an-exposed-cargo-area while her commercial-four-wheel-drive-truck-based-sport-utility-vehicle is getting repaired."

vs

Everyday:
"Dude, can I borrow your truck?"
"No"

The american that said "Car Truck"? That's because we don't have a special word for the classical ute (integral-bed truck). We don't use the word "ute" except as short for "Sport Utility Vehicle" meaning more-or-less a tall wagon. This is a very common usage in the US -- "ute" for "SUV".

The Ranchero and El Camino have been described as many things. "Pickup" or "Truck" has been used to describe them, but it's not the most common usage I heard. Generally they were just called Ranchero and El Camino back in the days when they were actually sold. The El Camino was the car-truck-pickup-whatever version of the GM Chevrolet Chevelle/Malibu, while the Ranchero was Ford's variation of the full-size late 50's Ford, then in the 60's the Falcon compact, then Fairline and Torino mid-size vehicles into the 70's.

Hey guys, there's opinion, which you are welcome to, and fact, which you cannot change. Dodgeman, you cannot change the fact that millions of people call all light utility cargo-bed haulers "utes". You other guys, you cannot change the fact that ute originally meant a car-chassis derived truck with integral bed (see the Holden web site link near the beginning of this thread). Dumbing down terms over time? Maybe so, but that's how the english language works. English borrows, changes spelling and pronunciation and often changes the meaning of words over time. Gotta love the English language.

OK after this i'm going to bed.

I take your comment about people being lazy, but we are dealing with automotive enthusiasts here. People who presumably seek out more knowledge abiut their favorite subject, so the lazy description shouldn't apply, but perhaps it still does.

Black & white? Yes, we live in a colourfull world, but for me, the ISSUE is black & white. It really is simple. Just apply the same standards to commercial models as we apply to passenger models. How much simpler can it get?

Sedans & wagons.
These two terms define the basic body type, while the door count simply completes the full description. A sedan is a sedan, otherwise we would call it something else. I chose to leave out the door count to reduce the typing input. It's a plan that didn't work.

I can readily accept that people have diferent opinions about many things, but if you have a Datsun 1200 coupe, & someone calls it a wagon, do you accept that as a valid opinion, & leave it at that, or do you say that they are wrong, & tell them what it really is, because it's a coupe, & thats a FACT.
In this illustration we are dealing with a situation that's not likely to occur very often, if at all, but for me it really IS happening, & opinion seems to cary more weight than historic fact. Unbelievable.

You are right, telling people that they are wrong isn't too friendly, however there seems to be no diplomatic way of saying it. Opinions are well & good, but over time, many ill informed opinions can be accepted as fact by the unknowing, & thats what i am fighting against.
If making friends is all we wanted to do in life then we would all be awash with bullsh##

Thanks again for your side of the "robust debate" but i need to be in another city by 7:30 this morning [it's almost 1am] & i have yet to pack a bag.
I will be back next saturday night.
Feel free to e-mail me if you wish, but i can't reply for a week. That applies to any who wish to convince me that a ute isn't a ute any more.

Edit
PDS. The pic is on my hard drive only.
By the time you read this, you should have a text only e-mai & at least one [of 2] e-mails with pictures. I hope that the e-mail address in your personal details is current, because thats where it's all gone.l

dodgeman is the pic on the internet somewhere or is it only on your computer.
Only you will be able to see it if its not on the internet.
I wouldnt mind seeing the pic.
Cheers Steve.

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The term ute has evolved NOT the ute it self. The term is now used to descibe all vehicles that look like utes, why cos its eazier to do this. And if you think thats wrong, so be it, but others have the RIGHT to think what ever way they want to, no matter HOW much this pisses you off, thats life mate, get over it. If I let all the little things in life piss me off, I think that I would be a very sad person and have no friends and no life!

Yes I agree with you on your point about people begin lazy, but you have to look at the population in a broder way, as in there is far more stuff for people to do/learn today than in years gone by,
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People are just trying to make there own live simpler and lump flat bed tray etc in to the ute category. So what have the sheep got to do with this????

Its just eazier to lump stuff with other stuff cos our lives are full of stuff to do. Well I know that mine is anyway.

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Hmmmmmmm Black & White.......well the world we live in is full of colour, so I see life that way. If even thing in this world was B&W, then this world would be a very boring place to live!!!!!


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So a 2 door sedan and a 4 door sedan are the same as well, well yes sort of in the same category, but different, this also applies to the ute!!!!!!!!!


So going by this you think that a 2 door, 3 door,4 door wagon is the same as a 5 door wagon?? And if you do then I think the you are lumping the 4 door wagon into a category that its not apart of.

Can you agree that everone has a different view and that they are not wrong for think the way that they want to, even if you think that they are wrong. Dont go around calling others wrong, thats just not friendly. You have a different view to me and others have a different view to both of us, but we are not wrong for thinking about this subject the way we do. Every one see's something different from someone else at some point in life, thats what makes us human's and not some other sub-human species.

Cheers

Blair