I think this would be good 4 australia im sick of working with lazy pricks lets face it how many people have slaved of my back ,Im sick of working with people who are stoned all the time or goto the pub 4 lunch and come back pist or they have to leave early on pay day and you know there drugos and goimg to get there #### ,Or they need time to go to court for there pissy crap while you stay back and be the hard worker did anybody think of this >I would love to see the boss have the right to walk up to these pricks and tell the there sacked on the spot ....MAYBE real workers will be seen and paid a decent wage .seen this happen 4 too long .UNIONS CARRY ON LIKE BITCHS
Just check brisbane how many union members goto the pub at lunch time and come back pist to work ...Great safety and of corse the buildings safe we were pist wernt we ....give the real women and men of australia a job and #### the lazy ones of to where they come from just like the drug dealer tha will be hung on the 2nd of december tried bringing 400 grams heroine
=20,000 overdoses ...bought time this govt felt around for its balls and put a stop to all this crap an immergrant can get $10,000 after being releasd from a detention centre
..but an bum on a street corner asking for money gets taken away buy police as he is loiytering and being a public nusance......
NO point blaming the govt we all vote and we all are a part of this country so next time you see someone bring our country down say somethig dont be a mute tell the cunts its people like you that bring us down .MAYBE buy more australian products.
when i go shopping 4 vegies i always ask were it came from, not aussie grown ,I wont buy it ,I use ryco filters ,there made here in australia buy australian products and keep the cash in australia ,Im sure the govt doesnt tell you what to buy at the end of the day time to put our thinking caps on australia keep it ours

So political debate is alive and well at Datsun 1200.com, good to see so many differing and strong opinions.

To paraphrase Topgear, this is a great country and things could be a lot worse.

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hmmm... yeah... maybe

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I think the key thing you have to remember is, your employer is in the game to make money.
You are an asset to them if you help them make money.
If you do your job like you were employed to do and you do it good, your employer isn't going to try and make you miserable. That would be like bitting the hand that feeds you.
If you are only there just because you have grown up believing you have to go to work, it will be a different story.
Where I work, we are payed well above award wages. I can honestly say that I am not pushed to work hard and even when something is urgently required, you are not pushed, you just get in and get the job done. But yet there are still those that take advantage. We have the option of working Saturday morning for 4 hours, 2 of which are payed time and a half, the other 2 double time. Basically a normal weekdays wage in 4 hours. But yet we have guys that always seem to be sick during the week but fine to wrk Saturday. Is that fair on all others?
My employer is stuck using the "3 verbal, 3 written" rule. But its pointless. Guys get warned, sign a bit of paper and if they need to be warned 2 more times in 3 months for "The Same" thing, they can be fired. But you would have to be a real ####up to have that happen to oneself. So here we are, hard workers stuck carrying these losers on our back and still getting payed the same wage as them. Where is the justice in that.
So with this reform we can atleast be given a contract and if you agree to it,you atleast know where you stand and what you have agreed to. If you are a loser expect to have a contract drawn up to equal your work performance ability. If you are worth it, your employer will look after you.
Remember you will always have the right to work elsewhere.
Think about the situation if you were the employer and what you would expect from your employees and how you would keep the good employees happy.

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i agree with what you say phunk, and i agree that good workers should be awarded accordingly...

you ask me to remember that my employer is in the game to make money... and its that very reason that makes this whole workplace reform very daunting..

no i dont think that employers would deliberatly make you miserable.. but at the end of the day they are an employer and its their nature to want to make money..

and yes if they pay their workers what they deserve they will be rewarded with a good amount of production which in turn will make them more money..

problem is majorty of employers dont use that way of thinking... they see the immediate figures... paying workers less... means more profit..

which is why im uncomfortable with relying on the hope that my employer/future employers will value my work and pay me as much as i recieve today..

honestly.. i seriously doubt thay they will.. even if they see me as a hard worker.. they might pay me more than the other bludgers.. but it will still be a harsh paycut..

reason i say this is becuase howards award rate for my trade is less than half of the hourly rate i recieve today...

not to mention the massive cut in workplace conditions and benefits

this is a bit of a heated topic and after reading all the posts i'd be interested to know how many have been written by members of a union ????

as for apprentices .... my partner works for a group training company in victoria that employs 1000+ apprentices/trainees themselves with another 55000 having been registered over the last 3 years .... they've got to be working for someone ??? this is with only one of a number of group training companies in victoria.

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No worries Boof,I am proud to say I am a fully paid up member of the MEAA, there is no shame in saying I am prepared to stand up for myself, and stand up for those not strong enough to defend themselves.

I am not anti business or anti the boss, I believe the majority of employers are fair and just and care for their workers, but in those cases where they are not its good to have your union to back you up.

I have never had a problem with any employer in 20 years on the job, but I didn't work for Patrick corporation when they sent security guards wearing balaclavas with attack dogs in at 5am to tell their employees they were no longer required.

I am "currently" a full payed up member of AMWU NSW. I have never actually seen the union do anything worthwhile. Is fighting for the right to have an unpayed hour off every 3 hours when the temperature is above 36'C worthwhile or a waste of time, just to show the union supports its members? Workshop disputes between a member and non memeber. Union delegate instantly takes the side of the union member even before the reason for the dispute is known to the delegate.
I am keen to see how the union handles employment contracts with this reform. If I see the union wage a battle for workers to be payed equally even when one worker is a bludging loser, That will decide my future membership.

As to government apprenticeships and employees, in what I have seen, I lean towards agreeing with DatoMajic. I have a friend that did Auto electrical apprenticeship with a local council. On completion of the apprenticeship he was no longer employeed. He now currently works at State Transit. During his apprenticeship his tradesman "told" him he should be taking a roll of wire or tub of hand cleaner etc home each week. The same tradesman " who I knew " payed me to rewire his project car and fit an alarm in his wifes car, Mind you, I was still an apprentice auto electrician at the time. Give either of them a phone kit or 2way and they would have it installed in no time.
I also was part owner in a vehicle restoration business with a government employed panel beater. He was the typical employee that his governement employer was stuck with as a result of the 3/3's rule. Payed wages for 38hours a week said to be working for his employer, but spent 30 of those hours in our workshop working. Minimum of 50% of our materials being supplied by his employer.
Needless to say my part in the buisness was only a year due to his other work ethics.
I also know 2 plumbers and 1 mantainance worker who are governement and council employed. All regularly conduct private work during working hours using government materials.

All these examples are from within the last 10 years. Maybe these examples arent all across the board, but each example is from a different location. I also dont believe it is limited to these fields of employment and to people of which I have associated.

Also I might add my experiences with specific apprentice employment agency. AGT Automotive Group Training. I was originally emplyeed and indentured with this agency to complete my 4 year Auto Electrical apprenticeship. I was assigned a supervisor who was to look after me and check on my progress with my host employer. Regular visits from this supervisor to my place of employment were weekly and I had to sign a log to say of the visit. These visits dwindled to once every 3 months but yet when I signed the log I noticed I had already signed it for a previous visit the week beforehand. I questioned this and was told to shut up. Now I am one to speak my mind and within the next five minutes I had my indentureship contract shoved in my face and told to sign it to break the contract. I refused , I was told it doesnt matter if I sign it anyway and that I will never become a tradesman if his life depended on it. I was also threatened with physical violence untill my host employer walked in and stopped it. My host employer convinced me it was a waste of time andto sign the paper and get rid of the agency. I continued to work for my host employer for a few years and then worked for other employers as to experience different parts of the industry. I even worked in workshops where even as an apprentice I was the only auto elec. Without being an indentured apprentice I was required to work 6 years instead of the normal 4 before I gained by trade license. But all these years later, I am a tradesman and Jeff Grove from AGT can suck my dick. I am a tradesman and he is just an ex tradesman who wasnt good enough to cut it in the industry and chose to be a supervisor who bullies young apprentices.

Maybe this reform will give AGT the right to fire its loser supervisors. And then more apprentices will get looked after as they should.
I dont agree with every part of this reform,but I see the benefits out weighing the negatives.
I take the good with the bad.