All this discussion brings to mind on lesson that I've had to learn the hard way........
It's a latin phrase "Caveat Emptor", it means buyer beware & was quoted to me by a policeman when I was trying to get a deposit back from a dodgy sale.
I guess it also goes along with the other idiom that says a fool and his money are soon parted.

Where am I going with this?
Well, I guess I agree in the theory of what Phunk has said..... If people are too lazy or stupid to do research into the work they are getting done & just walk blindly in then they only have themselves to blame if they get ripped off.

Where I draw the line is when someone asks a direct question of the service provider (as part of his / her research) ie/ Is the alternator broken? & the service provider responds with a blatant lie..... That's unethical & the people that do it should be in jail.

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what would you like them to ask -
"excuse me sir (must be respectful remember!), are you ripping me off by knowingly quoting on work that doesn't need to be done?"

or maybe -
"if you don't mind me asking, are you quoting on this work because the part is faulty, or because you would like to make some more money out of me by replacing parts that are working perfectly well, while pretending to do me a favour by giving me something for 'free'?"

if a mechanic/sparky finds that a car isn't charging because the belt is loose, and calls the customer tells them it isn't charging and quotes on a replacement/rebuilt alternator, that is deceptive. You are not only deliberately implying that the alternator needs to be replaced when it doesn't (why else would you be quoting to replace it?), you are also deliberately failling to mention that there is in fact nothing wrong with it, and failing to mention the actual fault you found. And in the end you have the hide to tell them you threw in the fanbelt for free like you are doing them a favour! nah, nothing dishonourable/deceptive/unethical/fraudulent there, hey mate?

Why on earth would someone in that situation ask if it needs to be done? they may as well straight up ask you if you're bending them over. Customers shouldn't have to ask if they are being ripped off.

And I have a pretty strong suspicion you would not answer truthfully if someone did challenge you on it - if you did you would be exposed as the charlatan you are, and I've never known a con man to suddenly admit to it when he is caught out.
"yeah, fair enough, there's actually nothing wrong with the alternator madam, I was just trying to make an extra few quid off you cause I thought I could take advantage of your lack of automotive knowledge and your trust in me not performing uneccesary work on your car. Besides you looked like just another usual stupid sucker that generally comes to this workshop. No hard feelings hey? Oh and BTW, try being a bit more respectful next time"

I think you have some mental issues phunk. seriously, this whole inferiority complex about smug people walking in thinking they're better than you. Well, i guess you show them, don't you... get some therapy mate

L18_B110 I am not going to sit here and say you are wrong. In all honestly I wouldnt want it to happen to me.
My point is I would happily do this, although not as blatantly as its been made to seem. From day one I have maintained on this forum - I dont need anyones blessing or approval.
The point is, the customer is none the wiser (their own fault) and they are happy with the repair of their vehicleand the quality.
My hope is that members like Tommy will see for the future, how easily I could earn an extra $20 by doing and alternator ( yeah $20 is all the profit from a $120 rebuilt Alt )
If I can do this so easily, what are other blatantly crook workshops pulling off?
Talking to Oldmate at work today, we both agreed that out of all the automotive workshops we have knowledge of, Niether he nor I would happily recommend a workshop for alround work.
Thats the state of the industry today. Anyone believeing its just confined to the auto industry is fooling themselves.
Make note, Oldmate a fellow electrician feels I am in the wrong.
Customers need to ask questions. Its that easy. Most guys pretend to know about cars. Honestly your better off acting like you know nothing. If you have a rough idea what an Alternator is and I said " We charge XXX amount for a rebuilt alt" Most guys heads go click - Alternators charge the battery, OK Reco my alternator.
Girls on the otherhand usually know the least about cars and therefore ask questions like, what needs to be done to fix the problem, how much will it cost to fix the problem, What do you think is the best long term fix of the problem. All of these will receive straight up honest answers from me. I am not a conman and I am also not your life coach.
People are mostly victims of their own stupidity.

As for the way a customer speaks to me or any other tradesman. They dont need to speak to me like I am superior. They need to speak like they wish to be spoken to.
Any tradesman that has had to deal with customers will know how rude customers can be. The fact that when they visit an Auto elec its because their car is busted, doesnt help.
I used to get taxi drivers drive in and tell me to fix their car now.
I used to get customer come in and tell me, its just a broken wire, shouldnt take long to fix.
That is disrespectful and I wont ever drop what I am doing and put someone elses car on hold just for a rude prick. You tell me how to fix it and seeya later you can fix it yourself, or you can choose to pay the exagerated price that Iwill quote you for being rude. Dont like it, go elsewhere.
Many customers think they can get you to check for a problem, tell them the cause, quote it and they will say they will return next week, but actually fix the now know problem themselves.. Thats straight out rude. Thats conman material.

I am in no mafia, I do take medication like I have said before. I dont think I am better than anyone. I do think.
I am no Angel like you L18_B110. I live in the real world.
May all salesman go to hell for making you beileve you need something you dont.
May every member of this forum Understand my posts and realise if you make sure you know what you are getting, You should be happy. Its your hard earned money after all. Use your brain.
Oldmate you are a top bloke

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isnt what you are saying here totally contradictory of what you said in the quotes above???
the statement by phunk below is shonky and bu11shit is it not???i think that by telling a customer that the alternator is the cause, when the mechanic knows in actual fact that the fan belt was loose is a real cun7act, and if they ask you" is my alternator really shagged' would you keep the bu11shit going and say 'yes' to answer their question, pfft. what a load of crap!!
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ps. its quite disturbing to know that people like you are blatantly rippin off people like outr mothers, sisters, grannys,all the while your sittin back laughin makin an easy buck of their hard earned cash.
good on ya mate keep up the 'hard' work

I have managed automotive workshops for the better part of 10 years and must say that you are the type of guy that gives the industry its bad name.

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Haven't you been saying to treat people as you would like to be treated, seems we may have found the reason your people treat you like sh!t.

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So to get honest work done on your car you need to have done some course to understand how a vehicle works and therefore have a good idea of what needs to be done to rectify the problem otherwise it is OK to rip off the customer because they're none the wiser?? Oh, and its they're own silly faulty they got ripped off!!!!

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I would say you have anwered that question...

Ive recently opened a fibreglass buisness my self and found customer relations a funny affair .Some people have come in and asked how to make a mould ,Hmm ok do i stop what im doing and give him all the info he needs >No,I asked him to stand behind the barrier as he is not in prtective clothing and give him abuisness card and kindly ask him to come back later and we can talk about what he wants to do ......
Customer two comes in .Lets say foul mouth larry bring you in a mould saying its Nackered but i need ten parts buy the end of the week ,you can fix it and i will give you the job ,So foul mouth larry asks for a quote ,So quoted him to repair the mould and make the parts + 70 % up front .So he has a winge but still comes up with the cash on the day .....My 1200.com customers >Whom have delt with me have recieved there part with a reciet and have paid all the time none of my interstate customers have to pay before they get them ....Why cause i believe every one hear have been quit helpful to me so i give it right back the best i can ...........
This is not directed at anyone .Its just some of the things ive had to deal with so far in buisness..........

Man I am loving this. I am proud to know Datsun1200.com has so many Angels.
Make note I will happily reply to every post.
Pepper You have me confuzed.
Your first 2 quotes I 100% stand by.
The Third one I also 100% stand by.
Both are completely different.
Lieing, decieving is wrong.
In the third quote I have done nothing wrong by the law or by the Dept of Fair Trading. I think most of you feel I am saying to the customer, this work is required to fix the problem. No I am not. If you have a charging problem and I say that I charge XXX for a rebuilt alternator. I havent ever said this is the fix for your problem. Its your stupidity if you dont ask whats the best way to fix the problem. Ask and I will tell you. Most customers come into the workshop and say "My car isnt starting, can you check it out and tell me the cheapest quickest way to fix it". Some customers dont do this. Is that my problem?
If you agree to have me fit a reco alternator and I also put a new belt and tell you I put it for free. I am not bullshitting. I supplied and fitted a reco alternator of which you agreed. I also supplied and fitted a new belt for free. I never charged you for a belt or its fitment. I charged you for a reco alternator, once again to which you agreed.
Take me to court if you are my customer, I have not broken the law, I have done nothing wrong. Tell the judge all you like, but remember you agreed to the work that was carried out.
I have never ripped anyone off. I performed all the work with quality, for which I have quoted. Reguardless of whether your car need this work is N/A, as you agreed to the work before I performed it. I never once told you that you require it.

I think everyones biggest problem is they feel its my resposability to stand at the door and say Oi you in the red car- you need a new fan belt or Oi you in the blue car - you need new leads.
Its your car. Its your responsability.
Ask me what I recommend and I will tell you.
Say to fit a new starter even when I havent said its the problem, still not my problem.
Customers used to come in and I would say " I charge xxx for air- con regas" do you think that means why your battery is flat?
I go to the servo and at the counter paying for petrol, the attendant says " we are charging xxx for blah blah drinks" I dont sit and think" hmm servo my tank is empty, OK give me 2" Thats stupidity.

MLS how does a tradesman like me give the industry a bad name. None of my customers are complaining they have been coned or ripped off. They are all happy with my work performed.
Maybe with these post I am admitting to this work practice and its might make the industry look bad. OH well.
I am also posting this to help others to realise and think in the future. My Bad. I still sleep.
I have never said "Treat others like you wish to be treated" I did however say " speak to others how you would like to be spoken to" thats a big difference.
Like I said you can be a dumbshit. You dont need to know nothing about cars. You just need to ask questions.

Anyone else? I will happily reply

Like I have said in the past. Make a statement. Make sure you are happy to have questions asked of it. I know I am.

so your saying if someone comes in and says' my battery isnt charging' and you look at it and see it is only a loose fanbelt, youll then just say to the customer, "umm...the best way to fix that would be a rebuilt alternator" you cannot say thats dodgy.
any decent person would tighten a belt and say have a nice day. you are clearly just tryin to make a buck at the expense of some 'stupid' person who obviously know nothing bout a car.
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thake this for example, you have LED the customer to beleive his alternator is part of the problem and he needs a new one.
by the 'law' you may be in the clear, but still its not right to do, not everyone knows all like you, and are able to check if their alternator might be shagged and are totally oblivious to the big pile of mechanical talk you spewed all over them.
you can reply how u like and you can explain yourself till your blue in your face and dazzle us all with your hypocrytical sarcastic crap, i dont care, 'you' just cant tell when your being a dishonest, unscroupulous shonk.

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Maybe learn to read. If you can show me where I ever wrote that. I will come visit you in person and give you $100 in your hand, I will service your car free of charge, I will fit new tyres on your car. I will cook you dinner. I will even cut your grass if its hot.

But before Phunk does this work for you you'd better make sure you ask the right questions otherwise
- The $100 he just put in your hand may turn out to just be a loan with interest

-His service may only include checking the LHF tyre pressure

-The tyres may be off a 20 year old push bike and he may fit them to your side mirrors

AND

-His idea of cutting grass if its hot is one blade of grass with a pair of scissors but only if the temperature is above 75`C