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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Moderator 
Joined: 2001/5/3 7:04
From 48 North
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billy, do mean "less" in terms of volume, weight or cost?
Posted on: 2009/7/21 0:51
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Quite a regular 
Joined: 2009/5/25 14:42
From rockhampton qld
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you may not necasarily burn more lpg than fuel, an engine set up to run lpg only and tuned for lpg will equal or even better petrol burn. to start with gas will burn at 11 or 12 or even more to 1 with no addatives, gas specific cams are available, voodoo cams i think there called.many other advantages from gas only too like its already gas and burns freely, problem with most conversions is may sacrifices are made to have motor run on petrol too.
Posted on: 2009/7/20 21:07
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Moderator 
Joined: 2001/5/3 7:04
From 48 North
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I have a little, tiny, group 26 battery. My battery went about 1 hour without the alternator working. Then the headlights got so dim I had to stop driving.
The B310 electronic ignition worked fine even at 11 volts. Don't know if the B210 system would be so good. You could however switch to points system -- it uses less power.
Posted on: 2009/7/20 18:08
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Home away from home 
Joined: 2009/6/8 13:43
From Cape Town South Africa
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One of my friends did that with his race car and it helped! I wont say 10% but it on his aplecation it was about 3kw if I remember corectly it was about 5 years ago.
Posted on: 2009/7/20 14:48
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_________________
Racing started the day the 2nd car was built!
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Home away from home 
Joined: 2004/6/12 3:02
From Albany, NY USA
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Excellent informational post Dodgeman! I especially like the squish explanation. Thank you.
Here's another idea I am exploring. Some of the economy guys are installing an alternator cut switch in their cars and running without a charging system for their daily commutes to work [in other words - not for long trips]. They then connect a trickle charger and recharge their battery overnight. They switch to a marine "deep cycle" battery for this. Evidently the alternator is a significant drag on the engine and they are claiming up to a 10% gain in fuel economy from this modification alone. Granted, they are using newer cars with much more powerful charging systems than what our B210's have.
I am seriously considering giving this a try. I have some time left to test it out before the event next month. I need to go 102 miles without any charging. I am wondering if my ignition system [first year of electronic ignition in the US- not the later B310 system] will lose any of it's output when running off of a static battery voltage instead of the normal 14+ volts.
Anyone have any opinion or input?
Mike
Posted on: 2009/7/20 13:08
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster) 
Joined: 2003/6/27 14:53
From Southern Tablelands N.S.W. Australia
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Quote: ddgonzal wrote: Quote: USA BPR5ES-11 Canada MPG BPR5ES-11
The only real difference between these two plugs is that one of them is factory gapped to 1.1mm, so it would be intended for engines with the high energy electronic ignition. Thats what the -11 means, .... 1.1mm gap.
I personally recommend either Platinum or Iridium plugs in the equivalent heat range. These plugs use a much finer centre electrode & the expensive metals are used to prevent them being quickly eroded away by the combustion processes.
The advantage of the fine centre electrode is that it requires a lower voltage to fire across a given gap at a given compression pressure. This means that a larger gap can be used at the previous voltages & with a high output coil that .044" [1.1mm] gap can be opened out to somewhere much closer to .050" [1.25mm] This will start to push the [high energy] coil closer to its maximum output causing heat buildup, but as long as the coil gets some cool air flowing over it, then it will perform flawlessly. Big gaps mean big sparks that will ignite amazingly lean mixtures.
There was some discussion about "squish" earlier, but no explanation as to what it was & why it is good, so here goes.
Back in the mid 1920's a very clever engineer by the name of [Mr.] Ricardo in the UK discovered that detonation was caused by a combustible charge of fuel actually exploding after being ignited by the plug that was usually placed well to the side of the combustion chamber. Remember that back then he was dealing with side valve [L head or valves in block] engines. The flame front would burn across the mixture, creating a pressure wave in front of it that further compressed the unburned fuel charge until the pressure rose high enough for the remaining unburned fuel to spontaneously combust [explode, This is what caused the knock noise] Remember also that the fuel back then was hardly better than refined kerosene so the octane rating was quite low.
He found that if he redesigned the head to cover about 2/3rds of the piston crown with a very small clearance between the piston & the head [gasket thickness only] then the charge that was being pushed upward by the piston would jet, or spurt, at very high speed into the actual combustion chamber which was located over the valves alongside the cylinder itself.
This very small space between the piston & the head was termed the 'squish' chamber because this is essentially what it did & the resultant spurt of gas caused a very high degree of 'swirl' in the combustion chamber. At this critical moment the plug fired the mixture & the resulting flame front was mixed into the fuel charge at high speed causing it to burn before it had a chance to detonate.
The net result was that compression ratios could be raised from about 3.5 or 4 to 1 up to as high as 5.5 to 1 & Chrysler Corp even raised this to about 6.5 to 1 when the optional alloy head was used in the mid 1930's It wasn't untill 1955 that 'super' grade fuel was introduced into Australia & compression ratios could be increased even further. It is interesting to observe that the 1955 Dodge Hemi had a compression of 7,6 to 1 but the following year, 1956, saw this rise to 9.25 to 1.
The same process is still used today. The piston 'squishes' some of the fuel charge into the combustion chamber causing swirl & this can help to prevent detonation in modern engines that have even higher compression but use the lower cost grades of fuel available today.
If you want to run big compression numbers in a street engine, then paying close attention to the squish areas of the combustion chamber will provide benefits & allow the maximum use of a little more compression & a little more spark advance, both of which will yield performance benefits from a given grade of fuel.
Posted on: 2009/7/18 18:34
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_________________
Love your Datsun. Treat it well.
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Home away from home 
Joined: 2004/6/12 3:02
From Albany, NY USA
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My club's next "Economy Run" gas mileage contest will be on August 23rd. Take a look at the list of cars signed up for this event:
1. Mike Kamm - 1977 Datsun B210 - Averill Park, NY 2. Tom Moeller - 1994 Mazda Miata - Saratoga, NY 3. Dave Burnham - 1991 Eco Diesel Jetta - Delanson, NY 4. Ben Jones - 1991 Honda CRX [with lean burn VX swap] - Hanover, NH 5. Richard Vedder - 2000 Ford ZX2 S/R - Johnstown, NY 6. Martin Deschenes - 2000 VW Jetta TDI - Quebec City, QC 7. Ron Kienhuis - 1972 Citroën SM - Long Island, NY 8. Vlad Saakyan - 2003 Suzuki Svs650 [650cc] - Schenectady, NY 9. Bill Clark - 1957 Metropolitan Hartop - Endicott, NY 10. Bruce Turk- 1958 Saab 93B - Walden, NY 11. Ernie Yue - 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250cc 12. Dan & Richard Dobbins - 1964 Studebaker GT Hawk - Long Island, NY 13. Matt Herring - 2009 Toyota Prius - Boston, MA 14. Robert Smalls - 2000 Honda Insight - Buffalo, NY 15. Peter Ramotowski - 2000 VW Golf TDI - Albany, NY 16. Eric Hoefer - 2008 Honda Fit - Guilderland, NY 17. Ryan Kramer - 1988 Toyota MR2 Supercharged - Albany NY 18. Lance David - 1996 Chevy Cavalier - Johnstown, NY 19. Darin Cosgrove - 1998 Pontiac Firefly - Ontario, Canada 20. Chang Ho Kim - 89 Honda CRX - Maynard, MA 21. Jeff Morgan - 1992 240sx - Rotterdam, NY 22. Hobbit - 2004 Toyota Prius - Boston, MA 23. Tom Compoli - 1981 VW Rabbit - Schenectady, NY 24. Dan Mandle - 2004 Golf TDI [Vegetable Oil] - Potsdam, NY 25. Carl Germain - 1950 Studebaker Champion Business Coupe 26. Jonathan Bartlett - 1969 Saab Sonett V-4 - Sterling, MA
Quite an eclectic group eh? We've got old school early compacts, going head to head with the latest direct injected diesel and hybrid technology. Yes, there are a couple of bikes too.
Should be fun. Just hope it doesn't rain. I won't drive my classic B210 when it rains.
Posted on: 2009/7/18 3:16
Edited by blownb310 on 2009/8/12 5:39:03
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Moderator 
Joined: 2001/5/3 7:04
From 48 North
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OK, I see this. They are gapped larger than usual. Very interesting.
Posted on: 2009/6/18 4:36
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Home away from home 
Joined: 2004/6/12 3:02
From Albany, NY USA
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Quote: ddgonzal wrote: Which manual do you have? I'm look at the 1980 Datsun 210 factory "Service Manual" (Nissan, Feb. 1980), and it lists BPR5ES-11 for US, and BPR5ES for Canada.
Apologies, it was the 1979 factory manual [green cover] and the listing I referenced was on page ET-6 of the "Engine Tune Up" section. Mike P.S. I received my new single groove pulley from Courtesy Nissan last week. It's amazing that we can still get parts from Nissan for our 30+ year old Datsuns!
Posted on: 2009/6/18 3:26
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Re: A completely different A-series build! |
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Moderator 
Joined: 2001/5/3 7:04
From 48 North
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FU Engine is the high MPG engine (50 mpg in B210, 47 MPG is B310). "F" means five-speed, and "U" means United States. All five-speed models were fuel-efficiency motors, not performance models. Which manual do you have? I'm look at the 1980 Datsun 210 factory "Service Manual" (Nissan, Feb. 1980), and it lists BPR5ES-11 for US, and BPR5ES for Canada.
Posted on: 2009/6/17 6:19
Edited by ddgonzal on 2009/6/17 6:35:49
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