Started at Anti-Lag as a topic of discussion

Hi, my name is saf, and I am a hoon.

Well, maybe not, I take offence to that word if its used to describe me, kind of like how many other races of people get offended by a slang word describing them, I do too. I hold two international circuit licences under the FIA and a MA road racing licence, along with drivers licences for cars and bikes in two different countries. Im not a 'hoon', matter of fact im more road/race educated than 99% of our politicians.

I am a person that deoesnt always obey road rules tho, and while I know about time and place and have a strong sensible judgement (lost 1 point since I acquired my lic in 92) if you catch me doing something wrong, ill take it, but its going to get ugly if you want my keys.

So what changed ?

Well not much, there were laws to always combat this, speeding, dangerous and reckless driving. BUT the govt came to a cul-de-sac, and had no-where left to turn, at what time Fast And The Furious came out and glorified street racing, and lawmakers got it into their heads, that its a secret underground society much worse than the Ku Klux Clan, so it needs to be stamped out, and with that so will speeding, road deaths and nuclear waste. Well .. something like that.

Newsflash the govt, you will never have a 0% road toll. Its impossible. Soon as you hand keys to a human from a car, truck, helicopter or plane, you WILL have driver error, and fatalities. The difference is they can be limited, and HOONS ARE NOT THE REASON, as true FACTUAL statistics will show, other factors such as DUI has more deaths per year, telephone poles cause death, as do people driving through red lights. That does not mean we need to ban telephone poles, and green lights at intersections on cars going the other way.

Who were these short sighted people ?

The ever so gracious Ms Michelle Roberts, with a tag team effort of Grant Dorrington were great contributors with ill-informed banter to the lower and upper house. While there have always been pollies who dislike our kind, these two have been at the leading edge when it comes to running in the dark and bumping into stuff in the WA legislative system.

Neither of these two have ANY clue on what they are talking about, none at all, and sadly it seems that the new generation of politician doesn't either. Few years ago if I said the world was flat, id be correct. If I say the world is flat now ... id get laughed at, and its only by knowledge that we know its round. These people don't care, they will CONVINCE you its flat by the stats they want you to see. They feed the media, the media feeds the public, so they are obliged to act, and the vicious cycle of mis-represented rubbish continues.

Ok so what can we do ?.

Me, nothing. We ... something. I tried some time ago, got rather close and found that people could be talked to, and if shown in logical scenarios, I believe could be persuaded to say "hold on, this is making some sense!". When I say we, we would need people, a dozen committed volunteers to liase with Police, Govt, Cams, MA, AHG driving and such, and get the word out, and most importantly the matrix (media). What pill do you want ?. If only we got together, the impact we could make I think would be noticeable, and actually become a voice ... as right now they step on us as if we are 'roaches, this is how most civil rights groups started out and now look, they are getting scumbag crims out of long prison sentences with lines like "he was abused as a child" and other irrelevant brainwash like that.

What would the goals be ?.

I think you have to sit down as a collective and see where people want to go with this ... but in all honesty, id personally want ...

Greater licensing skill and driving tests for new drivers
Advertising campaigns on driver ed, ie why people drive in the right lane of the fwy when its technically illegal to underpass, but fail to move, yet flip you the bird / road rage when you high beam them to move.
Target and fine these people who shut down the infrastructure of this dismal road system we have, ie right lane driving on freeways, highways and major roads without having the intent to turn right.
Removing the under maintained cars and bikes off the road system, ie cars on poor condition being targets also for random checks.
Insurance, and why everyone should have to pay compulsory insurance.
And finally removing the right to seize and remove property as in cars for fines and convictions that already exist.


While I have a few more, these are a few major ones. A quick breakdown of thoughts (so it doesn't turn into a epic read ill short cut it a bit, ie happy to discuss later in greater detail)

Licensing - Its a joke. Period. Three point turns ?. Ive done maybe 4 in my whole life. Ill do a U-turn on a roundabout or intersection instead. Instead, drivers need to be taught. In my time we paid nix, for a simple test and if you pass, you get a P plate to say you can drive around for the next 12 months and learn how to drive AND if you don't get killed, congrats you get your real lic !. Its much the same today, and sorry, that doesn't cut it. Ive been driving on Perth roads in my fathers show quality 1 ton v8 ute we built up from the age of 15, so getting my lic at 17 meant nothing, apart from being legal. It taught me NOTHING.

You should now pay $3k for a lic. Its a privilege, not a right, and for that, you have to complete a dozen sessions at AHG style locations that the govt needs to back and setup, like they do in Singapore and Europe, and prove YOU CAN DRIVE. You will be tested, and if you dont cut it, go to the back of the cue.

Cant afford 3K ?. No probs, the govt will pay for your lic and you will over time by options pay this back. The govt needs to extend good will to get these better drivers to the streets. Get caught doing stupid acts on P's .... start again, 3K aswell. The govt can afford the loans, we make a killing on multinova, and if I knew the money went to education, id never complain for a fine. Neither should you.

Advertising - Don't waste my time showing a car doing a burnout, show ads of self centred drivers/ riders on the fwy, Wanneroo rd, Reid Hwy, Tonkin, Morley drive, Albany Hwy whatever, driving in the right lane because "I pay my fee's, its my given right to drive in this lane". No you need to donate to the govt fund with a 120 dollar fine. Your a un-educated idiot who has never travelled past Geraldton and seen how other systems work in other parts of the world, and why we are so inefficient here with our traffic per population. Merge, why cant we merge ?. Ugh .... same again.

Poor condition cars - These aren't abused half as much as perf cars. These are a greater contributor to road damage and motorcycle safety hazards with fluid spilling, bald tyres and lacking control etc etc. Leave my Brembo's alone, please target other road users.

Insurance - Not really needed to explain, but if you cant afford private third party insurance (as a min), you cant afford to fix that Merc you slam into. So what happens next ?. You get taken to civil court, plead your case, and civil court makes you pay back 8k of damage by ways of $45 a week. If I can afford a Merc to get slammed into, i can afford a guys with large shoulders and no-neck to visit you and kindly remove your fingernails out on a weekly basis till i get my 8k. Why should my insurance cover you ?.

The govt needs to step in and somewhat regulate the insurance companies, to give realistic price quoting. Ok we will make it legislation that everyone needs insurance, but insurance companies need to get real with pricing. I was 31, I called RAC, 60% NCB + protector, no fines, garaged car, good suburb ... $1880. WHAT THE ___ IS THAT ?.

Hoon laws - Well, sorry, no. 86 Magna (1.2k), R34 GTR (60k ?) both driving up the fwy at 145. Both are confiscated, sorry ... but one is a 1.2k lesson, the other is a deposit and full furnishing along with landscaping into a house. Not same same. Try that with the human race ... give a white person a $500 fine, and give a black person a $1200 fine for the same thing, sit back and watch what happens.

Fact is the govt is there to make money. So keep these drivers on the road. Fine them, generate more money. If I do a 175kph stoppie on the FWY (not that I would, im a honest citizen) or do a 160kph pass in the emergency strip on my 1000RR and a cop spots me, give me a $2500 fine, im cool with that, I deserved it, confiscate my bike. But if you want my bike and not return it, you got to chase and beat me for it, and that isn't going to happen.

So now your making me run, on a 200kg bike, 100kg of rider (ok im going on a diet) that's 300kg, and if I generate 10g's at point of impact if I hit a car door, ill be dead, and the person on the other side of the door will have a 3ton impact ... will probably be dead too. This happens all too often (the chase and evade part).

Is this what we want to promote ?.

Leave the cars, bikes and anything else. If I ride my VTR SP2 on the fwy at 140, or my Supra ... its safe. There is more hazard with that drunk driver you missed, cause you saw the 140kph Supra instead.

The govt needs to acknowledge that motorsport, fast cars, and racing will happen. They should give you the option to take it to a track. Wanneroo raceway is a old track, good for cars and bikes in the 60's and 70's ... its outgrown its title. Riding a 200hp superbike out of turn one, hard on the gas and flicking it thru the esses, hoping your front end wont walk on the flick right meaning that you slide into the concrete wall and become a contributor to the health system, sucks.

We need more tracks, and in all that wanneroo isn't even affordable for regular people, not to mention I hear they have again lifted the fee's. What is that about ?. So we cant drift on the street, we cant race on the fwy ... but you take away govt grants for drag racing, thus making it more expensive, you wont build a drift complex, nor a world class circuit track that could pay for itself , luring teams for testing and perhaps stealing the F1 or other big name events ?. Thats right, my bad, we need another stadium, we have Subi, Waca, and Challenge, but we need one more.

Back to the streetcar thing. Have you ever noticed that the govt wants to ban hi-po cars, yet many makers are pushing perf more than ever ?. HSV, FPV, TRD, STI, RALLY ART, AMG, M Series ... Evo, GT-R, RX-8, 370Z, WRX ... all thriving. Why ?. Its what people want, its not a fad, its not going away AND these cars are actually safer with these "hoon" style of mods that are now standard ... but the govt narrow mindedly wants you to stop that now. Every roadbike flagship bike is getting faster and lighter ... so it here to stay and the govt doesn't want to know about it. But let 20 kids a year drown and we all have to have a pool fence. Kill 200 on the street and we forget about it all except ... "HOONS".

Hoons dont make the stats for greatest kills on the roads. Most are there to leave a few black marks, make some noise, scrape some speed humps, and keep the clutch economy on track. One hoon has a street racing accident and kills someone, and the family will standup and want it all banned. A centrlink leech can come into your home with a 12" stanley screwdriver, stab you for the keys, steal your car, pull 3 cop cars into a high speed chase, crash the car, and injure a innocent victim, and get a couple years ... if that, 6 months out, because he is from a broken home.

But I do a 80kph wheelie standing on the rear pegs of my bike on the FWY at 2am on a wed morn, and ill loose my 20k bike. No sorry, that's what I consider, a poor joke.

Well the rest is up to you guys. These are a few of my views, don't be shy to bash this thread, agree or disagree, and perhaps you may see some reason to support people who would make a change. Im not saying im the leader, for now ill see if there is positive interest, id be happy to start something up with others, but no-one can do it alone. You need support (as in a committee) and support from clubs, people all banding together.

Ill drop a few more ideas in this thread, this is too long of a reply already, if your still here, thank you.

On a sidenote, journalists in Australia should need a lic to print / publish stories. So when TT do a story on hoons and show Japanese drivers drifting in Japan on streets, that journo needs to have his lic suspended for 6months, and go back to working in a deli, not spreading false propaganda.


love it :)

I pretty much agree, also I sent it to graeme butler (Today tonight, done some work for him). He will probably never get to read it but keep an eye on TT just in case.

Whoa, what a read!!! I seriously nodded off 4-5 times during it.

Some good points to consider, some terrible ones. There is no one 'right' solution to the perceived problem. I say perceived problem because if you compare the road death totals of today with the '70s back there is no comparison, fatalities have dropped considerably and for a number of reasons.

Where this novel hits the nail on the head is licencing. That Top Gear Ep where James goes to Finland to learn to drive is where its at. Fins learn to drive almost as soon as they can walk. These youngsters are taught in controlled environments on racetracks in all manor of situations. It serves 2 purposes, 1, they spend years honing car control techniques well before they hit the road, and 2, they get all those crazy things that we all want to try (powerslides, burnouts, racing, speeding) out of their system early and safely.

We can learn alot from their system. They drive in crap conditions most of the year yet have a negligible road toll. Go Finland!!

pretty much

ok so heres a few views from me. im a young driver and i drive a 73 1200 ute. i try my hardest to keep my car in a good roadworthy condition but what is a roadworthy condition for an older car? the government stops you from doing many things to your car, i.e. you cant re-enforce the side impact protection without this being a threat to your heatlh in an accident. im sorry but id much rather have two heavy steel tubes running along the door if i were to be T-boned then the original 2 sheets of steel at like .8mm thickness. also you cant fit aftermarket steering wheels coz these to will hurt you more in a crash. again i beg to differ as my car has a non collapsable steering column and id rather be hit by a full steering wheel then the broken centre and the column.

now to insurance. how the hell can you be expected to fully insure a car when for a young driver has to pay out $2000+ a year then in the event of an accident have to pay out twice as much as any one else, its just crazy when we are the least paid age group. but i very much agree with compulsory third party property though

now i have put more than just money into my car, i mean all the hours spent changing this and that only to be told by some police officer that me driving around a corner to fast is considered "hoon" driving and that he has the right to confiscate it from me is just bullshit! fines are fine when deserved but then there are many a cop out there at look at a young driver in a 'modified' car that immediatly think hoon. now may from time to time give a lil wheel spin but i dont do it on busy main roads but instead in an industrial area with big wide roads and no pedestrain traffic.

i also think that if the government expects to create 'hoon' free streets then they need to provide a place that offers people to take their car to a place where they can have a lil fun and throw it around and not at some stupid price either. i mean to open up mallala for a day is a couple of grand so you need to pull a team of cars together to even consider the idea.

and when it comes to licencing in finland i think one of the stages to getting your licence is two weeks of learning to drive on a skid pan as well as being able to handle a car and a whole heap of very advanced driving schooling. why do you think finland has the largest percentage of international rally drivers per population
better schooling is needed

just some of my veiws and i agree with alot of what you have said

if we all earnt as much money as this dude and were able to afford supras and superbikes and showcars and the like then yes this would be fine and dandy..... yes please more race tracks though.

I agree to the improvements.
But sadly things like this thread just create more negatives than advancements.
I picture this just focusing on removing hoon laws. - #### that. They are there for a reason.
Whats this #### about car value? Only ones self centredness decides how much you spend on a vehicle. Break the law - face the full force of it.

Focus on improvements and you will suceed in making it a better place.
Complain about injustices and you're just a lame arse.

i dont think its complaints about injustices its more to the fact of being able to afford to do the driver training courses mentioned in the text.... but im just a lame arse

most of the time it is just whinging about 'injustices'
like the recent case of "boo hoo waa waa im an awesome driver but got booked for doing 170 in a 100 zone."
the laws are there, and probably there to stay. there isnt much we can do about it except take responsibility as an individual for your actions.
car enthusiasts will always be looked upon as hoons because of a minority who think its ok to act the goat, so we have all been tarred with the same brush now.
get over it, it aint gonna change.

thought this would stir the pot