User Login    
 + Register
  • Main navigation
Login
Username:

Password:


Lost Password?

Register now!
Fast Search
Slow Search
Google Ad



Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users



(1) 2 »


CNC engine idea final
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined:
2002/10/28 6:49
From under the Firmament LOL no twiglight effect BS
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 10924
Offline
Just wondering if it could be cheaper and possible
to contruct a crankcase out of channeled flat sections
of alloy plate that are then lego'd together using
tig or/and high tensile studs.
This will allow bolting on the top end of motorbike
engines and a simple t5 with its 4 bolt pattern.

Attach file:



jpg  billet block.JPG (32.59 KB)
737_4da96349abe24.jpg 435X336 px

jpg  billet block 2.JPG (36.96 KB)
737_4da963511db6c.jpg 448X316 px

Posted on: 2011/4/16 10:40
_________________
"Australia" is formed by all its geographically listed territories "including" Norfolk, Christmas & Cocos Islands. The word include excludes all else before it therefore you have no legal rights.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/4/9 8:47
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 923
Offline
did you machine this mate?

Posted on: 2011/4/16 10:44
_________________
datsun a15 ute
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined:
2007/1/22 23:06
From East New Britain, Papua New Guinea
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 6981
Offline
That bread and butter technique is normally used with timber and adhesive/pins.

I don't think it would be economical at all, too much movement and would be gasketing nightmare if it were to be a bolt through. It would be very very time consuming, laborious and most probably ineffective.

Are you building a block?

Posted on: 2011/4/16 11:21
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined:
2002/10/28 6:49
From under the Firmament LOL no twiglight effect BS
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 10924
Offline
If I machine that block, Id be running it by now :)

Im looking at the mighty tin engine and got ideas
http://crosleyautoclub.com/Mighty_Tin.html

If its tig welded together should be fine compared to bolts.
I mainly mentioned bolts to hold the crankcase like motorbike
engines use but also for stronger mains rigidity.

Posted on: 2011/4/16 12:07
_________________
"Australia" is formed by all its geographically listed territories "including" Norfolk, Christmas & Cocos Islands. The word include excludes all else before it therefore you have no legal rights.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
Home away from home
Joined:
2010/4/27 11:04
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 197
Offline
Pre-fabricating the plates (drill/tap/machine) then welding them up to connect various pieces like lego is a long shot due the huge amount of warping that would occur from the welding.

For it to work you would have to make the rough shapes needed. Weld them together so that you are sort of left with a "casting" then start machining faces and facing/drilling/tapping/boring.

You would basically treat it EXACTLY like a casting when machining it. So in that case you would be better making a pattern and getting that part cast or for shorter production runs...make it from a solid block.

Even then, say you had the ability to machine a engine block from a chunk of aliminium. Just the fact you removed a large amount of metal from the starting piece would cause the whole job to warp and stress relieve meaning machined faces are no longer flat/bores not parallel and then as a final step in the machining process you would then re cut all the faces and remove the bare minimal amount so that the job cleans up without stress relieving.

Which brings us back to casting - the job is 90% there and only finish machining is needed of critical dimentions.

Posted on: 2011/4/16 12:57
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined:
2002/10/28 6:49
From under the Firmament LOL no twiglight effect BS
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 10924
Offline
Very clear thanks for the info. Casting would be the only way to go.
Ive measured the zx14 head and almost all fits withing the ca18de block.
It would be easier and cheaper to slice a ca18de bottom end, remove the
cylinder casing area and shape the left over to suit the kawa top end.
This will allow the use of the ca18de crank, oil pump / filter, alternator
mount, engine mounts and the rear could have material removed and still
have room for a plate to mount to t5 gearbox.

Attach file:



jpg  bike engine base.jpg (178.70 KB)
737_4da98a93451f4.jpg 494X517 px

Posted on: 2011/4/16 13:24
_________________
"Australia" is formed by all its geographically listed territories "including" Norfolk, Christmas & Cocos Islands. The word include excludes all else before it therefore you have no legal rights.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
Home away from home
Joined:
2003/1/13 13:39
From Forsby Finland
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 167
Offline
My friend with the speedshop planned to cast a new block for their Volvo because they had huge problems with the standard block holding up the 500hp/l. He even made a mould for the new block but the casting was to expensive here in Finland and he had to order atleast 50 pieces!? Donīt want to be a pessimist, you have a great idea there!!

Marcus

Quote:

D wrote:
Very clear thanks for the info. Casting would be the only way to go.
Ive measured the zx14 head and almost all fits withing the ca18de block.
It would be easier and cheaper to slice a ca18de bottom end, remove the
cylinder casing area and shape the left over to suit the kawa top end.
This will allow the use of the ca18de crank, oil pump / filter, alternator
mount, engine mounts and the rear could have material removed and still
have room for a plate to mount to t5 gearbox.

Posted on: 2011/4/17 16:27
_________________
I am building a mean Datsun E10 racer , a15 turbocharged engine, aiming for 280hp....
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined:
2002/10/28 6:49
From under the Firmament LOL no twiglight effect BS
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 10924
Offline
That blows casting out or the picture, unless i go into the homecasting forums and
find someone interested in doing low run sand casting.

I still think high quality flat alloy plate at around an 30mm in thickness wont
suffer much warping if welded.

Since the cylinder sleeves are separate there is more emphasis on the oil lines, oil pump area, engine mount area and line boring.

---
About the volvo block, I didnt know that some later blocks? suffered over 500hp
The early pushrod blocks and first ohc ones are massively over engineered.
Are you talking about the later modular alloy ones?

Posted on: 2011/4/18 0:52
_________________
"Australia" is formed by all its geographically listed territories "including" Norfolk, Christmas & Cocos Islands. The word include excludes all else before it therefore you have no legal rights.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
Home away from home
Joined:
2003/1/13 13:39
From Forsby Finland
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 167
Offline
Quote:

D wrote:
That blows casting out or the picture, unless i go into the homecasting forums and
find someone interested in doing low run sand casting.

I still think high quality flat alloy plate at around an 30mm in thickness wont
suffer much warping if welded.

Since the cylinder sleeves are separate there is more emphasis on the oil lines, oil pump area, engine mount area and line boring.

---
About the volvo block, I didnt know that some later blocks? suffered over 500hp
The early pushrod blocks and first ohc ones are massively over engineered.
Are you talking about the later modular alloy ones?


I have not much experiance in welding thick aluminium parts together but it might get quite expensive, the aluminium has to be very good quality but it might work! Would be nice to build an own engineblock out of alu.

About the Volvo engine itīs a B230, and yes the older Volvo blocks are massively over engineered but as it was dynoed to 1200hp, near 500hp/litre, it was big problems with the blocks cracking. There was also big problems holding the engine in the enginedyno when boost rose rapidly! Once when the engine was tore down in the speedshop and he had forgot to cover the cylinderhead, he looked me in the eyes and asked me if I saw the valves and porting, I sad ...no ... he said, good then I donīt need to kill you ;)

Marcus

Posted on: 2011/4/18 18:05
_________________
I am building a mean Datsun E10 racer , a15 turbocharged engine, aiming for 280hp....
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer


Re: CNC engine idea final
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined:
2008/3/15 3:30
From Melbourne
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2742
Offline
Just the pattern work alone would run into the thousands. then getting your first casting would be at least a grand. Then heat treating and sleeving and machining. For a one off you would be mad if you thought you'd get away with it for less than $20K...

At work we do all our own pattern work and even just for a bell housing it costs around $3K to $5K for pattern work and then around $300 to $500 for the initial casting and then heat treatment and machining. You need to sell 10 housings to break even.

For the scale of the project you are talking about, the casting would be the easy part. It's the time involved in the programming and design that is the killer. 3D moddeling is one thing but it is what goes on behind the model that is the dricky part. All the holes and galleries and bits and bobs that make an engine work is a pretty full on task. hundreds of hours go into the design of a gearbox. And at least a month into the casings alone to make sure that when it is done, there is no room for error.

On a scale of a one off block to suit a motorbike head it would be cheaper to modify the motorbike block to go into your car. Your talking a F1 budget there D. But it would be nice. But cheaper to go and buy a cosworth motor.

Posted on: 2011/4/19 22:25
_________________
My daughter Myshka raised over $6000 for the 2013 Worlds Greatest Shave. Thank you to all who donated big and small. Without your help she could have not reached her goal.
Transfer the post to other applications Transfer



(1) 2 »



You can view topic.
You cannot start a new topic.
You cannot reply to posts.
You cannot edit your posts.
You cannot delete your posts.
You cannot add new polls.
You cannot vote in polls.
You cannot attach files to posts.
You cannot post without approval.

[Advanced Search]