I wrote Quote:

T50 celica are very sought after rare and most need rebuilds along with dellow kit you are looking at 1300-2k from good second hand to rebuilt. Awful first gear ratio and only 3-5kg lighter than a stumpy 71b series.

It doesnt matter really which 71b they have mostly 3.25 first great for the road but the issues if you dont use the stumpy, gear level is further back and 6-7kg heavier than the stumpy 71b.

71 series FTW either way easy to source, better gearing slight weight penalty but the same as using a W55,57,58,59 or lighter than steel case w50

I reckon Don thats a good price but finding 20 would be hard ;( yet if that price is for the whole bellhousing its a bargain thats way better than the dellows kit.

Love a sequential version of the Hollinger rwd w/ 5 speeds rated at 200lbs that bolts on to an auto A series bell. Probably no change from 10k AUD.

Getting everyone to agree on box would be the hard part, any CA box would be extreme over kill for mine (ever picked one up?), why not l-series, as celica is done already.

I had a word with my boss about the possibility of casting a new bell housing to replace one off a CA or simular 71 series box to an A series. You could do it two ways, cast a small housing to replace just the gear cover and bolt up to an auto bell housing or do the whole thing in one hit. My boss said no worries, but the first batch would have to be no less than 20 housings at a cost of approx $1100 each. Pricey, but you'll have an A series box that can be torque rated at 280nm odd.

I meant W50 steel case... not T50 alloy

I have both... W is alot stronger

with respect to the shifter relocation - for me that is actually something I _want_ I'm not a giant (I'm just over 6'1" but hover aroud 140-150kg) and I already have relocated the drivers seat/rails a good 5-6 inches rearward, for more leg room, but it's not enough. I'm doing 'version 2' of the seat rail/brackets which will basically have the back of the drivers seat just touching against the front edge of the rear seats. I've altered the steering wheel hub/boss so I can space the steering wheel rearward a little (I need leg room, but by the time the seat is theoretically far back enough for good leg room, the steering wheel is a little bit too far forward.

So if I backspace the steering wheel - good, and if the gearshifter is moved rearward - also good (for me at least, and I guess nobody else is going to drive the car, so that is fine). If it interferes with the handbrake mechanism, I'll alter the shifter lever, or relocate/move the hand brake lever, whatever it takes.

We are talking budget and feasible conversions for boxes readily available while the problem when I say "gearing" is first gear is mainly useless. This is with standard diameter rolling thread. We are not talking rally setup
On the 1000s Ive had all several of the following boxes from 56,60,63, t50 and changed ratios down to 3.9 from 4.11 and 4.375 behind an A14/a15 and all sucked with first gear just been totally useless. Maybe not so in 1200s???

60L 4-speed first 3.51 is useless in a torquey 1000 so the T50 first of 3.587:1 is just a smidgen worse but 3 times better to shift. I always took off in 2n gear, maybe different on heavier bodies 1200s but I thought with boost it would be the same useless first gear issue.

The W58 and 71C boxes are my favorite for clean shifting followed by the W57 after that there are mainly W55 and W59 boxes with horrid first gears that make take off in 2nd. The steel case W50 series are also awesome boxes with good shift action but they weigh over 40kg like the 71C long box. Steel case celica box is also getting long in da tooth.

Jmac I might be assuming in your case but did the peeps talk about the pre-WC or the WC version of the T5? Most people forget that the bad crap T5 are the pre 1986 ones while the WC T5 is the fave budget performance box worldwide for any conversion no matter what engine even Nissan VH45 to name one. You will find any hotrodder, racer or petrol head that uses the WC T5 in a ton of different engines.

The T5 has to be the WC box found in post 1986 models they shift a world away from the earlier horrible contraptions that where the first t5 boxes.
Ive driven falcon utes, panelvans and other post 86 t5 and they where nice to shift and very reliable while the earlier ones are just plain trash.

just google images this "locost t5 box custom bellhousing"

Volvo, Mazda v6, Mazda 2.3 all alloy L, Ford Zetec, ford V8s, nissan VH45 v8,
T5 Derivatives - 2.95 1.94 1.34 1.00 0.80

No other box comes close with the above ratios except notchy and wobbly shifting 71b boxes behind the early Z cars. They are very sought after and have a shift feel like a wooden spoon in a giant soup pot with femur cow bones. I did drive one beautifully rebuilt 240z with a tight box but was still a notchy mole. My favorite geared box experience was this notchy box in 1st gear you just pulled away from anything as it was a 2.9 but awesome compared to the later 3.225 boxes.

The 71 series boxes are the best for they are mostly 3.25 or 3.3 first gear.
All the stumpy 71 series boxes are lighter than their normally found long counterparts while only 6-7 kg more the stumpy is only 35kg at worst which is close to the T50 and 3 kg heavier than the stumpy T5 on the S-10 chevy trucks.

71c boxes are like the WC T5 in shift feel, very sure crisp shifts where you know exactly where the gates are everytime. The T5 front input is removable unlike the 71 series so easier to mod input shaft to suit an A series. Every bit counts.

Here is my favorite T5 modded in Pomland and presented as the JT5 made to replace the very short jaguar 4 speed boxes it farking beautiful
http://www.westnet.com/~mfrank/jt5s.jpg
http://www.5speeds.com/racing/modelcr.html

No box discussed here will compare to a special like a Holinger box ( I wish I didnt see Dons workshop the boxes there are complete Art pieces) but for interests sake the JT5 is perhaps a 1/4 the price of a similar Holinger beauty.

60a I had one behind my supercharged setup, turbo setup, a12 a14 a15 it was the same box I ran for 3 years and had not one problem and was still smooth shifting at time of sale! And I DROVE my car like I'd stolen it ! :)

60 series box would be strong enough if it's in good condition to start with and you have some mechanical sympathy (i.e. dont do burnouts fr the sake of a burnout)

the T50 is a great conversion, i run it in my rally car and used to run one behind my A15ETT, but complete install first time (including conversion kit) is about the same price as a 63A box, it's just replacement boxes are cheaper after that

I would say run the 60 till it blows...cause it may suprise you how well it lasts, but 63A would be the most logical upgrade given getting conversion kits from AUS is probably not what you had in mind and celica boxes may not be so easily sourced over there anyway (prices here are about $200 for a T50 and $1100 plus for 63A, the conversion kit for T50 is just under $1000)

JMAC - wouldn't that CA20 box have the shifter 6 inches too far back? i have a gazelle box to off load that has that same problem

D - i think you have said several times that T50 has horrible ratios.... why is that? i have not found this to be the case, better than a-series boxes in the rally car i think, what is your experience with them?

T50
First Gear: 3.587:1
Second Gear: 2.022:1
Third Gear: 1.384:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.861:1

60L 4-speed
1.000 1.378 2.170 3.51

Steel case Celica box

More than enough and bellhousing available from Dellow

Ratios aren't important in this case is say, as being in Europe that also limits your 2nd hand parts market.

60 series should suffice short to mid term, but if you can get a Toyota box, then the kit from dellow is only a few clicks away