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Equally Sized Valves
Just can't stay away
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Hey,
I was just reading through some of the articles in the Tech Wiki and wondered:
Why the intake valve is significantly larger? I understand the principle of a larger intake valve means air for power is more readily available, but take this FIGURATIVE example:
40mm carb throat - 40mm intake throat - 40mm intake valve, but on the opposite end, 40mm header runners - 40mm exhaust throat - 35mm exhaust valve. I know I'm not quite the sharpest pencil, but I thought the pressurized exhaust gasses need the larger valve for a quicker and smoother escape? Even in boost applications, an enormous intake pressure of 2 bar still doesn't have the flow and thermobaric need of the exhaust gasses after a compression ratio of 8.5bar.

And if this works so well, why do DOHC head use symmetrical valves? I'm just reeeaaally curious and I'd love to learn from you gentlemen.

Btw, anyone try symmetrical valves?

Posted on: 2013/6/15 9:07
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Bigger exhaust valve means slower gas speed. Think about the garden hose, you put your finger over the end to make the water go further.

It's the different temperatures of the gas that means you want different valve sizes.

Posted on: 2013/6/15 11:40
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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The 16v thing might relate to being able adjust overlap because of having separate intake and exhaust cams controlling the valves.
And physical limitations of the combustion pocket.. It is an interesting subject. I need to read more too.

Posted on: 2013/6/15 11:44
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Posted on: 2013/6/15 12:30
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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There's a lot to it but the basic principal is that for induction you have at most 100kPa to push the air in (atmospheric pressure). For exhaust there's typically around 400kPa above atmospheric pressure when the valve opens and this pressure is dumped/ wasted. That means to get the air moving you have roughly 4 times as much pressure available at exhaust so you can use a smaller exhaust valve to make room for a bigger intake.

There's also some fluid mechanics going on there, the fact that sudden expansions cause more pressure drop (losses) than sudden contractions, again this means you want a bigger intake valve than exhaust.

In a 16v head the exhaust valves would be bigger because there's room to fit them and get a better exhaust flow. For each engine size, valve timing and rpm there's an optimal port/ valve size.

Posted on: 2013/6/16 1:01
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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This also helps me as my engine builder said that he will put bigger intake valves in my CA and was wondering why not the exhaust too.

Posted on: 2013/6/16 1:13
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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CA18DXX already has 34.15mm inlet valves from factory
these are quite large valves well capable of 400+hp.
Just need longer duration inlet and exhaust camshaft.
This is done simply using factory exhaust cam on the inlet
side and getting a custom grind for the exhaust.
Simple & less money spent for Lil gains on already big inlets.

The factory Ex. cams have longer duration so put them on the
inlet side then get a custom exhaust camshaft for the exhaust
side for more duration and ready to go focus on other areas
of the package to support the hp required.

The inferior size but famous Honda D16 1.6 sohc 16v turbo
engine makes over 450+hp with stock 26mm exhaust valves
and 30mm inlets the most is 31mm inlets for these 76mm bore
engines and using cast suzuki vitara pistons with 24+ psi.

A CA18Dxx head is already a great as not many hydraulic
lifter heads of this size can spin to 8500rpm before needing
to go solid lifters for more rpm.

Posted on: 2013/6/16 4:15
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
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I learned quite a bit from that link!

I'm still curious though: intake air is either pushed in via Forced Induction, or sucked by the downward motion of the piston. Either case requires that the flow is simply improved. That coupled with the fact that exhaust gas pressure and temperature is so much higher than intake pressure and temp already, shouldn't the exhaust gasses flow more quickly from an identically sized valve even before the piston pushes the rest out? That being said, once again shouldn't the exhaust then be the one requiring the improved flow?

Posted on: 2013/6/16 13:15
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
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Ok so what if the intake valve was still a bit bigger but not as significantly and the space utilized for a bit larger exhaust valve? I.E. - custom camshaft to be cut - what if instead of 40/35 you size them more like 38/37 and rather increase the ex. duration just a little more? I mean as D said, if you already have an adequate intake valve, why not bring the exhaust valve up to par and just manipulate the cam timing?

Posted on: 2013/6/16 13:29
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Re: Equally Sized Valves
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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There is no gain to have an exhaust 1mm smaller if thats what you mean?
The exhaust has 4 times more pressure behind it than the inlet charge
so best use a ratio of inlet vs exhaust valve size around 100/80.
eg.
40mm inlet x 0.8 = 32mm exhaust
40mm inlet / 32mm exhaust

Still a stock H89 head has perfect valves and ports from stock for turbo

Posted on: 2013/6/16 14:41
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