I answered your recent questions on previous post, even the stock T50 is a better box than any A series 5 speed close ratio or not for its shifting ability which is silk not clunky even after 200,000kms. You can even shift a t50 into gear without using your clutch they are that good.

For those who want original by all means but this still does not warrant the fact the toyota t50 is a superior box from stock.

People like Billzilla has a good write up on them if you are not convinced but my experience with all these boxes Ive owned in the last 30 years the t50 Ive reconsidered by overcoming my datto biased mentality to accept it is for its weight, a perfect alternative box for the A series.

The A series donk is a competitor to the K series which really is the toyota engine the T50 also sits behind on many guises. The T50 is so good it even sits behind 2t, 3t, 4age and many other toyota engines. t50 behind a hot 4age is like running a 60 series box behind an sr16ve.

Even the K series is a more reliable engine than the A series, not better in hp or higher performance just over engineered to last much like a U20 vs an L20.

I would much prefer to run a 71c series with a cut and shut for the extra 5-8kg or even consider someone like Matthew76's future t50 adaptor plates to A series auto bell or adaptor plate to the back of an A series so it fits the T series bellhousings.

at 177,000 yen the full T50 kit is a bolt on with balanced tailshaft, crossmember and all the bits clutch plate etc. very good buying.

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My point is there is no better gearbox.it comes down for what purpose your car is intended for and what type of torque or hp figures your engine will be producing.Drag cars will prob prefer glide autos,track cars prob close ratio gearboxes etc etc
Personally.for me there is no point running a supra v160 getrag gearbox behind an A12 powered race car because it can handle 800hp stock but the ratios don't match the engine and diff ...i guess it would be perfect for someone who just wants to cruise around.
and also because the a12 won't output as much torque and horsepower to warrant such a gearbox even though its stronger..

On the topic of trd gearsets,Do you have any idea how much a genuine TRD close ratio for a T50 landed in oz will cost you not including labour to fit it in?? The trd gearsets are intended to be paired with with the TRD final drive ring and pinion of 5.375.
You will be able to fit a w58 or getrag v160/161 for the price of an a-series t50 with a trd gearset if you would much rather a stronger gearbox...

and why would a decent gearbox last only for a short time??It wouldn't be decent if it lasts for a short time. Ts cups cars have been racing and running 56a-series boxes from the 1970s both in close ratio 4 speeds and 5 speeds.This were gearboxes designed by nissan omori/nismo for a12 race cars.

and as i stated before, i know some personal friends with rally cars and "weak" gearboxes who have never broken their gearboxes!

Once again,a big percentage of gearbox breakages are due to the driver skill.

Your prob better off to cut and shut a getrag v160 supra or w58 gearbox as opposed to a trd gearset a-series gearbox if your only after strength.

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D,no offence intended,

I would agree with you if your talking about 60series 5speeds on kms they have run.

also most going for such gearboxes are after more than just nissan heritage..i.e gear ratios,straight bolt on,weight etc
While to many gearbox ratios and diff ratios might not really be a big deal, for those racing, it makes a big difference esp in under powered cars that want to remain in the desired rpm range.

56a series 5 speeds only came out in the Japanese market Datsun 1200 GX5s.They are not your usual common datsun 1200s that see many kms.
How many genuine GX5s do you know of in australia?
They aren't many around in japan and most haven't covered alot of kms as they are highly collectable cars in japan.This is one of the reasons a 56 5speed won't last for months in yahoo japan for 1700aud!

Your comparing one gearbox to a rare gearbox that many haven't had any experience with in Oz..
Better shifting and smoother as compared to what?Have you ever driven a car with an a-series close ratio 56a 5speed?or a t-50 trd close ratio gearbox?or a gx5 5 speed? Are these statements of "better and smoother" coming from driving and testing all those gearboxes?

The leading Ts cup cars are still running this 56a close ratio boxes..What more proof would one want to attest to their pedigree or quality from nismo items built in the 1970s??

Granted the T50 is more common so can see why its a favourite in Oz.
But if stronger means better for all applications even for engines with 150hp u might as well go r154,getrag or w58.much cheaper than a trd t50 ready to install

"My point is there is no better gearbox.it comes down for what purpose your car is intended for and what type of torque or hp figures your engine will be producing.Drag cars will prob prefer glide autos,track cars prob close ratio gearboxes etc etc
Personally.for me there is no point running a supra v160 getrag gearbox behind an A12 powered race car because it can handle 800hp stock but the ratios don't match the engine and diff ...i guess it would be perfect for someone who just wants to cruise around.
and also because the a12 won't output as much torque and horsepower to warrant such a gearbox even though its stronger..

On the topic of trd gearsets,Do you have any idea how much a genuine TRD close ratio for a T50 landed in oz will cost you not including labour to fit it in?? The trd gearsets are intended to be paired with with the TRD final drive ring and pinion of 5.375.
You will be able to fit a w58 or getrag v160/161 for the price of an a-series t50 with a trd gearset if you would much rather a stronger gearbox...

and why would a decent gearbox last only for a short time??It wouldn't be decent if it lasts for a short time. Ts cups cars have been racing and running 56a-series boxes from the 1970s both in close ratio 4 speeds and 5 speeds.This were gearboxes designed by nissan omori/nismo for a12 race cars.

and as i stated before, i know some personal friends with rally cars and "weak" gearboxes who have never broken their gearboxes!

Once again,a big percentage of gearbox breakages are due to the driver skill.

Your prob better off to cut and shut a getrag v160 supra or w58 gearbox as opposed to a trd gearset a-series gearbox if your only after strength."



Im in the states and available Datsun 5 speeds are unobtainium.

I am not running a Datsun rear axle either. I have a Ford 8.8 Rear TracLoc for the 1200 right now, and I have a Winters quick change on the shelf needing to be sized later to go under the car.

I picked the T50 for as stated before. I dont want to have to worry about failure. If your friends are using Nissan stuff then cool on them. I cant get the models they have so....... T50

By no means am I being argumentative, and no offense intended. I got to go with whats easiest and reliable.

I mentioned your recent questions on previous post, even the stock T50 is a better box than any A series 5 speed close ratio or not for its shifting ability which is silk not clunky even after 200,000kms. You can even shift a t50 into gear without using your clutch they are that good.

For those who want original Nissan by all means but this still does not warrant the fact the toyota t50 is a superior box from stock.

People like Billzilla has a good write up on them if you are not convinced but my experience with all these boxes Ive owned in the last 30 years the t50 Ive reconsidered by overcoming my datto biased mentality to accept it is for its weight, a perfect alternative box for the A series.

The A series donk is a competitor to the K series which really is the toyota engine the T50 also sits behind on many guises. The T50 is so good it even sits behind 2t, 3t, 4age and many other toyota engines. t50 behind a hot 4age is like running a 60 series box behind an sr16ve.

Even the K series is a more reliable engine than the A series, not better in hp or higher performance just over engineered to last much like a U20 vs an L20.

I would much prefer to run a 71c series with a cut and shut for the extra 5-8kg or even consider someone like Matthew76's future t50 adaptor plates to A series auto bell or adaptor plate to the back of an A series so it fits the T series bellhousings.

The yahoo auction kit sold for 177,000 yen still a good price if you consider its a bolt on kit

I will even consider matthew76's adaptor plate to bolt onto the back of the A series to accept either a T50 with T series bellhousing or a suzuki jimny M13a box with bellhousing
eg. the top one is a post 2007 box
http://s735.photobucket.com/user/zuke ... r/media/P1050836.jpg.html

D,
Just because ur t50 was shifting smooth doesn't mean they all do.Many many threads on the corolla forums of people complaining about their t50s crunching and breaking.Most will prob be as a result of the driver and maintenance.
Shifting smoothly can come down to very simple things i.e the type of gearbox fluid, clutch adjustment,condition of gearbox etc etc

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D,once again no offence intended,

Have you ever driven or owned a vehicle with a 56A 5 speed or a 56A Nismo gearbox??

Have you driven any of those gearboxes past 200,000km to know they get clunky?

Alot of gearboxes can be changed gears without clutch..i dont see your point there..That has nothing to do with the gearbox being good or better.That depends on the skill and experience of the driver.How long do you think it will last doing that?
Many wouldn't risk it as it Just takes one misjudgment of the gearbox and engine speeds and you wreck your gearbox.

You can shift your T50 without using the clutch ....id like to see you attempt that in a race track and see how long it will last.Once again gearboxes break due to such habits...

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This is straight off his webpage! The race gearbox he is referring to and comparing to a stock t50 is a k50 close ratio direct fifth gearbox.As you can see from that statement, he prefers a closer ratio for racing.Maybe not for street.
You should also see read on his webpage the effort he went through just to achieve a direct fifth gear.Have look at his gear pattern!

http://www.billzilla.org/drivetrn.htm
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Thats minimum 2500aud to land in Oz by the time you pay the import duty taxes,commission to agent and shipping fees.Add an aftermarket gearset (if you can find one) and the price comes to over 6000 aud landed and fitted....

Mattndew76,

not arguing mate.All in good datto spirit
Always good to share information.I red your thread.Very good build.Seeing you will be running a very good diff,supercharger and wide tyres due to flaring,id recommend you read the toyota and corolla forums about the t50 boxes.The gearbox becomes the weakest link if your running a very good diff and strong axles.Not to mention if you use very sticky wide tires for events like drag racing etc
Have a read on corolla/toyota forums,Might slightly convince you to go straight to the toyota W series esp if supercharging.

Funny how the corolla forums don't recommend the T50 behind supercharged or very modified engines.Its NOT regarded as a "strong" gearbox on their forums.And those who use them with modified engines do stress the point that how you drive it will make it or break it.Once again,depending on the driver.

Also as a side note ive noticed many mention on the toyota forums is that The highest output engine from factory behind the T50 gearboxes was 124bhp.

cheers

The highest output engine Nissan put behind 60-series was 80 HP.

I drove my 56 boxes frequently without using the clutch. Great transmissions! Lightweight and shift nicely. And fit the A engine with no mods, straight bolt.

It's all relative.

A12grunt,

I tried to locate a W50 before the T but the 4x4 truck guys snipe those and shelve them for the rock crawling. They are like trying to get a datsun trans in my location. sucks.

once word gets out about some cheap strong types of things and then become rare and expensive :(

W50 Iron boxes are good trans for taking abuse.

Sorry I thought I answered your questions before you asked them 3 posts ago!

However again yes to all your queries and yes I know of the issues Bill faced for the gearbox over 10 years ago thats why I asked you to read it, he used to run A series in the past behind all kinds of nissan boxes and later moving to the G13b legendary all alloy suzuki motor chose the t50 for many reasons Ive mentioned. Also if you are racing or restoring an original or historic spec race datto its hard to go past a nismo box thats a given, no arguments there.

For the average datsun guy the T50 is the winner but for the rare datto boxes some skill is required to make them live longer. Ive had T50s in celicas, corollas and in more than one datsun, they are all superior boxes to any nissan 56,60 and even 63 series stock and close ratio. I would not just thump the T50 on a race track for the fun of it, I do have mechanical sympathy for any make of car but you are being a little out of context by stating the race track which is what most datto guys here dont ever sniff and mainly dream about. The longevity of datsun gearboxes is an issue.

Now to elaborate further - I sold my close ratio 56a which was fully recoed and after a year behind an A16 2nd started to crunch, new straight cut gears were used on 1st and 2nd after its last rebuild and stripped 2nd gear gearing down from 4th and 3rd at calder. I treated that engine like my previous R100 bridgeport but I treat all gear changes with upmost respect. The T50 I used no cluth on was due to a broken clutch cable on the way home from a cruise, now I had the same issue on a fresh 60L and ruined that box behind a highly strung A14 I just acquired from a deceased estate with all work done by ex-nissan race mechanic Gordon Dobey a works datsun 1000 mechanic in the 60s when they won at bathurst. The strength of datsun 56 and 60 series boxes is similar to suzuki boxes they wear quickly after 200k.

Ive owned plenty of gearboxes from mazda, triumph, rovers, jags, nissan, mitsu, bogon taxis, vw, bmw, benz and have a large circle of mates from 35-70 into cars, with myself 46 big ones and Toyota and T5 world class boxes are the cream of afford ability and logic.

Even a good 63L behind a Stanza doesnt last long with a stock L16 and behind a 180b sss with stock twin su L18 also has a short life and even a well setup 71b behind a strong L28 has issues once you race them with stock internals and gearing. Nissan boxes require tweaking many box people dont know about unless they are datsun die hards. Yet you walk into many reco places and they are like what a datto box, yeah we do them but we do mainly whoredens and frauds etc.

A w58 which is equivalent to a 71c ca18det box is superior and yet lighter.
Toyota knows gearboxes better than Nissan always has and even "used" or copy Porsche knowhow for the better German synchros as the Japs could not duplicate the same quality or design for them. Toyota also went to Yamaha to design better heads, Nissan studied other makes. Japanese have always copied and gone from there.

Even the Nissan boxes outweigh the equivalent Toyota variants

Now if you read my post before hand you would again not have to ask the same questions again. If you prefer datsun go for it, I prefer toyota for gearboxes behind an A series and if you go racing you can buy a t50 close ratio race setup with all the good stuff done to it for 2500aud to 3k if you know where to look.

Also given the chance I would go a stumpy 71c with close ratio setup if someone made the adaptor plate for it but would also go a T5 bw world class box from a 86+ chevy s-10. Those boxes are 35kg and close ratio gearsets cost 1095usd for any ratio choice under the sun.

Now the T50 is used by plenty on this forum and although I would love a close ratio version again as I had in my old ta22 with 1900cc 2tc. I would settle for a stocky again than a datsun one which are too rare now to mistreat or rebuild without costing a kidney.

All interesting though but that kit on Jap yahoo is just for locals we in Oz have the Dellows as mentioned earlier.

At least we have choices but in reality our choices are getting more and more expensive. Thats something corollas peeps never have an issue with and must say corolla peeps are worse drivers than datto guys. Corolla owners are more tight reared than almost any car owner. When you deal with lots of them you just can wait to deal and trade with datsun peeps.