This is all quite off topic now, but I'll give my insight seeing as I was asked.

I work in the auto industry, I have for the past 8 years, specifically in design. I do everything from concept to production for all parts of the world including Japan and the US and work on both interiors and exteriors.

I obviously wasn't in the design team that worked on the 1200, but I can take a pretty good guess as to how it went and I think you're pretty close in that the team were trying to replicate the US muscle style, but in a smaller way to work in their own country.

All design is borrowed from somewhere, whether that's from nature, or in the case of the majority of the auto industry, from other aspirational cars. When we're working on a job that is small and economical, we don't have pictures of other crappy small economical cars because they look #OOPS#e, we have pictures of things that we like and we try to work that into the job. In the case of Datsun in the 60's and 70's it just seems that the lending of ideas was rather literal, less interpretation, more copy.

Sorry for the long post guys Im taking over temporarily from Jmac's absence! ;)

There is always going to be debate between Industrial designers vs Engineers but to put it simply all car designs borrow from each other as does art.
We can discuss that so many cars look like such and such and even the design team responsible were given themes by the market research departments that were not usually followed or impossible to.

As for total rip off yes but not the mustang, that was done already as mentioned for the kb10, the new 1200 was a borrowed idea from Hillman out of all places but on the new successful Dodge offerings that targeted the mustang.

In Oz and Japan as well as many other countries that were economically just behind USA, the kb10 mini early mustang look was a success for those that couldnt afford the real deal. The auto journalists had a field day with harsh words for it and the Z that the Jps could not come up with anything original themselves but to copy the western world.

You have to understand that although the Merican market was a successful target by Nissan, the pro Detroit biased auto journalist said most jp cars were blatant inferior copies of great world cars. They were so they had to up their game.

The main interest of the Japanese designers for the local market was using Italian cues specifically Carlo Abarth finishes or Abarth like souping up. Carlo Abarth was a reason the rest of Europe and latin Americas did what we do to datsuns but to fiats but earlier. Budget nimble lightweights into hobby pocket rockets.

I was fortunate to met one of the original Nissan stylist department workers in Kyoto in 1997 in a Nissan club outing and from what I understood and didnt at the time was those examples mentioned were the main themes.

The kb10 even had giveaway chopped down tailights from the early mustang. Therefore dogs breakfast main ingredients mentioned (Fiat, Chevy & Dodge) were the new thems for new 1200 as it had to move away from the mustang kb10 effort
which was a bit embarrassing for the stigma of westerners saying jp just copy.

The fairlady Z era datsuns were more obvious but the Nissan made a stronger effort in the latter part of 1969 to be less give away to what the auto journalist were saying hence the more original looking design cues that even borrowed from other Japanese cars but using single headlights and further
cutting down of usually obvious giveways.

Nissan acquired the Prince company and the Jp Gov pushed its makers to style
their cars with originality but it was easier said than done.

Again going to go further into design here so sorry for the long if boring post :(

Japan retro is a massively influence by USA since it is afterall USAs biatch.

It was not only Nissan but other Jp makers that started by using Italian styling companies to help with their products and even these hired foreigners used Merican styling as they themselves could not help be influenced by this strong force.

The Italians had no choice as many of their own countrymen where part of the Grand plan / scheme to create the whole new image for USA that would help its consumer products dominate world wide. Therefore with the help of the CIA (this info is even in your local library) snatched or enticed many famous designers from around the globe, post and during the WW2 to make the USA retro movement.

USA hired Europeans engineers, designers and artists from all over the world to even move the capital of art from Paris to New York and entrench the retro movement throughout all of USA products after the WW2.

Japan looked at Italian and Detroit style products and borrowed heavily in the 60s but by 1970 they formed their own detroit simplified retro DNA. Mazda was the more successful in making the most unique jp car designs ever seen but Nissans choice of simple is best is also a reason why the 1200 is so sought after because there is nothing like it.

Its a coke bottle design made in Japan but not dissimilar to its over the pond theme that is subconsciously in our taste buds for halve a century since its introduction and the reason many go for the fanta ink for the 1200s.










Hillman on the other hand failed at the B Car proposal while
Nissan took it and ran with the Avenger proposals and made them
their own for the 1200 and 120y using r429 concepts.

yet the main theme was the Dodge challenger barracuda lines

Avenger R429 Coupé eg.
http://www.rootes-chrysler.co.uk/hill-ave.html


Flatto would be interesting for your input to see what they taught in your
modern background of industrial design compared to mine. Its all fascinating.

another Dodge effort by Morris pay attention to that front end!
Austin, Morris, Datsun which came first the chicken or the egg :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwGDzaUqa0s

Quote:

REALLY!? REALLY!?

Its so obvious especially in the 1200 coupe that it is a total complete rip off miniature first gen mustang. And then all that flows into the Sedan etc.

The back half and especially roof line of a fiat dino looks very similar to 240z. The front looks like a triumph or jag, not any popular datsun

Now that makes some sense and Ive always input in your better halves 1200 thread about that you should for once go JDM instead of another ADM build. Yet Im not closed minded to ADM just ADM done very badly which is unfortunately the main majority for such a unique and delicious design. Your Fluoro dash idea left me scared!

1200s borrow nothing from the mustangs btw it was the 1000 coupe that did.
Although the 240z had plenty of borrowing from other cars, 1200 did way less
and closer to miniture fiat dino, Vegas and Dodges which where to outdo the
next corollas which had ke15 coupe vs our kb10 then ke25 vs our 1200 coupes.

There are so many ways and options for JDM its not a tunnelvision choice just
sad when fellas end up like the example for sale here which I would never be
protecting due to the sellers upbringing or personal choice.

Nah. You missed the point. I love the diversity. I never tell people what to build or how to style their car without first asking what they want to achieve. It is you who is adamantly pushing one style. Perhaps you have a minority complex, but you should not feel that way, JDM is quite popular these days.

I met you 12 years ago and you remember that, lol. Certainly I have changed since then, you should also try to move on.

Dont forget I have a full blown race car a heavily modified street car and a stock looking street car. So straight away I have my foot in 3 camps. Call one RACE, one ADM and one JDM if you like... but to me they are just the fruit of what I wanted to build with each one or just whatever I could afford to do at the time. But certainely my own vision. Which is exactly what everyone should build... their own vision

When I saw you the first time you asked me what you thought about a fluoro yellow painted dash (something I will never forget if almost made me vomit but you seemed like a nice young guy so I just was kind to you) I said nah dont do it but even though you have grown up since then you still seem to believe your taste is what everyone should have if you grow up in Oz.

Well Im here to tell you that tacky comes to mind but again Im not influenced from where I grow up Im influenced by industrial design and truist principles where others focus on the engineering side and then eventually or hopefully get a better eye over the years as to what suits certain cars or maybe they dont.
Maybe its all those years of watching american hot rod or foose the goose on how to properly destroy cars.

I definitely dont see an SLR torana coupe with guard mirrors and vw chin spoilers but thats what we are talking about here, what suits and what doesnt but you are protecting a typical bogon burbian effort like its your own taste as well. If that is still your preference then I feel you are protecting your boy racer illusions but thats your choice.

Are you saying what the Japanese stylist intended?

They just copied british, american and european designs up until the early or mid ninties.

If you cant see that a 1000, 1200 and 120y borrow most of their styling from a mustangs then you are deluded. To do one up in american muscle style is fair enough to me. And heck if you grow up in Australia then obviously the australian scene will also influence your build

Most classic jap cars are very similar in styling to the classic cars of the world... and were always built after those cars of the world

So.... what is this JDM? Well its just a rehash of everyone elses DM really isnt it. Over the years it seems that people have forgotren what 70s jap cars really were. Obviously I love the cars but the language about what the stylist intended and how they were in japan and blah blah is just bs

The numbers are clearly stacked up to ADM butchery more than JDM.

The example in question is what it is and regardless of what can
be done to change its Bogonization even for ADM effort its ugly.

Only as the better self educated youth of todays datsuns have increased
and few of the oldies kept insisting on showing the original lines that
the trend started to go towards truist JDM.

Also the cost of say a 1200 coupe is not what it used to be therefore
most of peeps that buy them today would not dream to go ADM blasphemy.

The design aspects of the Japanese regardless if they were budget or luxury
do look better as the stylist intended rather than typical brain flatulence.
Cost should not be a reason to abuse a car but each to their own.

Everyone has their opinion and that is mine living both where these cars came
from and where many end up as boy-racer projects and ADM muscle car wannabees
I prefer to see the few that are left on the roads to look balanced.

Just a note the rotary engine today to rebuild will cost what exotic donks do.
This is the main reason many Mazda rotary die hards are in a hard place atm
and Even though they are easier to rebuild than an A series I will never touch
them again as rotaries are on the opposite scales of the small block chevy for
hp vs $ vs reliability.

well said

like it or not that is a wicked ride, and all the key stuff is awesome gear

the parts listed are all held on with one bolt or 2 screws, this can be converted from ADM to JDM or any other crappy incorrect stereotyping acronym in about half a day and a few hundred bucks in parts

Don't forget these were cheaply made economical cars, like todays sub $20k cars. Taking them back to stock is not eveyone's cup of tea because they recognise that these were not classic sports cars like a 240z or 2000gt or similar

the worst thing about JDM - all cars end up looking stock and identical (one has a hang ring one doesnt, one has a chin spoiler one doesnt - woot!) - thats boring - the internet as a whole seems to push people to conform to one look - but that is not what makes the car scene fun at all