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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Yeah I did D,

My concern with them is that they look too small to run as the primary pump.

They are listed as an Auxiliary pump, so Im unsure as to what function they are designed for in the VW design.
Unless you have all the technical specs, their intended use is the best guide as to how they will perform in an alternative environment.

Do you have any specs of these pumps? LPM output, duty cycle, max temp ratings etc
How many would you need?

To me they look like aquarium pumps and you would need a few to make it all work. One at the bottom radiator hose (to push into the block), one at the firewall for the heater (to ensure that it gets some), and one on the intake of the radiator (to suck from the motor)
Im happy to be wrong, but output from a centrifugal pump is a function of the size of the pump housing, so little pumps cant move much water. If you want more volume, spinning the pump faster only works so far, before cavatation sets in. You have to go to a bigger housing. Plus, since these are electric, their flow is set - what you get is what you get.

Also, its a bit hard to know exactly what the water volume requirements this motor will need. Most water pumps designed for a specific motor don't provide flow rates - its a mostly irrelevant fact as 'its deigned for the intended application'.

The Davis Craig EWP selection guide gives some hints. https://daviescraig.com.au/electric-water-pumps

They sell 'booster pumps' and replacement water pumps.

The booster pumps are designed for the extra water services, such as the heater, or an Air-water inter-cooler or such.

Their guide suggests that to replace a standard water pump for a standard 2l engine needs their 80 lpm unit, and for a modified / turbocharged engine their 150 lpm unit.

When I turbocharged my V8 diesel (I know its not directly comparable), I was surprised as to how much water it wanted. Now they are a hot engine with cooling issues as well, but I upgraded to an 80 gallon/min (300 lpm) unit, (biggest I could get), but the later versions of the same motor runs a 115gpm (435lpm)unit, and for modified motors thats still not enough.

I don't think that I need that much flow, the 150lpm unit will be heaps I think, but as I mentioned, those aux pumps just look too small to run on their own.

Posted on: 1/12 22:35
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Good thinking yet they look like the ebp versiom of davis craig units
https://daviescraig.com.au/media/1756/ ... EWPRange24-April-2019.jpg
Its a big car so would be interesting to see the flow rate data.

Here is an example of the flat belt side pulleys etc
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MaUAAOSwqHJdsda3/s-l1600.jpg

Posted on: 1/13 4:10
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
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I am picking up what you're are putting down D.

Rather than put the pump on the accessory belt plane we incorporate it into the timing belt system.

By doing that we would only need the one idler. Not two. The water pump would act as the removed idler. The tension sprung idler would remain on the opposite side of the system.

Just we would have to find a pump that resides at the exact stand off distance

Posted on: 1/13 18:06
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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The more I think about it, and looking at the plate.

Could you cut off the adapter plate where the section that the original pump sits, and bolt the original pump back onto the block?
Then make up an adapter that bolts to the front of the standard 4 bolt flat face to extend it out and use a flat pulley/idler to get it to align with the timing belt. That would be a simple bush type adapter. Bolt the idler to the bush, then bolt the water pump to the adapter with 10mm bolts into the back of the bush.

As long as the area that covers over the original timing cover is sealed to prevent the oil coming out the rest of the plate is there to support the location of the tension and idler pulley.

That would make it much easier for parts moving forward, makes it more of a bolt together exercise.Just an adaptor for the front of the water pump.

Posted on: 1/13 21:53

Edited by reuby_tuesday on 2020/1/13 22:47:58
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
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I could machine a custom pulley that resides within the timing belt belt plane for the water pump, and I could just place the factory pump right in its factory position.

Posted on: 1/13 23:25
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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I reckon thats the go.

If you can put the standard water pump back - thats a win right there.

If you can design a bolt on adaptor between the standard water pump and an off the shelf idler, then thats (i think) the best solution. A full custom pulley would mean that replacing that becomes difficult when the bearing wears/fails. Not end of the world stuff, just a little harder to maintain is all.
But lets be honest, your not doing a DOHC setup cause its easy....

The standard v-belt pulley sits a fair way back (its offset back towards the block), so the end of the pump shaft would be close to where the timing belt would run.
I don't think you would need much of a spacer, if at all.

this image of the front of the engine shows how much the pulley is set back vs where the front of the shaft ends.
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Posted on: 1/14 0:06
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
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Looking over the pump system on the Datsun. The pulley of the factory diameter wont slip over the whole pump housing. So that is out of the question. Without ordering a pile of pumps to samples I don't know how I could design around other models.

The Idea of moving the pump outward and continuing to use the factory V belt or custom serpentine is the best solution. The less we have to buy is best.

Posted on: 1/14 1:16
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Now that I have looked at it again - your right.

A custom pulley would have to be the only option.

Basically a square shape pulley that the belt could sit against might be enough.
Again, its only acting as an idler on the smooth side of the belt.
The steel of a custom pulley that bolts to the datsun pump wont wear out any time soon. The bush/bearing on the water pump might, but that would be easy to replace.

If you pull the pump forward to get the original v-belt groove to line up with the crank v-belt, then the impeller of the water pump will be out of the 'casing' (ie the block) and it may not work very well. The impeller needs a close casing to work else it just ends up like an outboard motor prop in the ocean.

This would then mean a fully remote option again with a backing plate on the datsun waterpump (to keep the impeller and casing close), and we are back to where we started.

Perhaps you can just machine off the v-belt bit off a standard pump pulley and see if it lines up close enough?

Posted on: 1/14 1:45
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
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I am currently working on some GTO vents, and plan to machine a proto timing plate afterward. Ill post a machined image soon. couple days type soon.

Posted on: 1/14 3:41
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Re: DOHC Front adapter plates
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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looking forward to the revision.

Posted on: 1/14 5:02
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