Ok so i got into a heated debate about a serious topic with a mate- Carbon offsetting. I think its a crock really.

Heres my reasons, yes in principle its great- plant trees to offset the carbon we input into the atmosphere doing whatever we do.

But in practice- where do they plant these trees? The paper mills run their own plantations to grow, chop down and then replant sustainable forestry for our needs but where are the carbon offset tress planted?

Also there are so many different businesses, yes business in this emerging industry, they are all competing for our carbon $. So there must be a profit in it somewhere.


This all happened because certain business and events are wanting to introduce mandatry not voluntary carbon footprint charges to offset their carbon emmissions.
Great- in principle but in practice- where are the trees? What type of trees, natives?

Lets just say i planted a tree in my back yard, so theres my input for now, as it grows it will consume c02, then when it matures i will cut it down and replace it with a new seedling. After all they dont consume any where as much c02 when grown compared to when growing.

Yes, It would probably take 20 - 30 young trees to consume as much c02 as a mature tree (depending on tree sizes, health of trees, type of tree etc.
But I agree with you, we should do what we can to help but a lot of people will make huge amounts of money out of global warming crap.

i don't like talking about stuff other than datsun here, but it's just another tax! and reason to make our electricity cost a #OOPS# load more, i could say more but it's not the forum to do so.

Its all political vote winning crap dreamt up by tree hugging politicians who have never worked a day in there life to know what actually happens in the real world and what effect there retarded decisions will make on the world let alone there own day to day life!

Its a proven fact that the human race produces 7 Billion tonnes of co2 every year...
But the oceans of the world produce 800 Billion tonnes!!
The human race is 0.8% of the whole "THEORETICAL" global warming crap!
Were not even 1% of the situation!

And to every person who reads this message... your financially paying for this dreamt up crap! Your computer is using electricity right now isnt...? Is your electricity bill getting cheaper these days? NO! Its increasing at 500-800% of inflation! Therefore increasing at least 500% faster than your income.

Dont get me wrong its the only planet we have so for gods sake lets look after it! BUT for crying out loud enough of the Global warming crap already! Its an evolutionary cycle that we cant change. This aint the first time this has happened, and wont be the last

its all crap they have stolen land rights off our farmers

farmers aren't aloud to clear there land
and rudd use's those tree's in his offset crap (chooking the books

top gear found a v8 merc was greener than a toyota preASS

just think of all the polution they make just to get to the conventions to whinge and complain about global warming....what ever happened to conferance calls! i hate polititions so i will stop there....

It is really unfortunate that anthropogenic climate change, and whether or not it exists has become the basis of the climate change argument around the world.

The real reason we need to pay more for polluting is that the costs to produce anything and everything have rarely (if ever) included the cost to clean up the pollution emmitted (in the form of C02, litter, landfill etc).

A river cant complain when you dump tailings from a mine in there.

Thus we are actually getting stuff at a rediculously cheap price because the cost to the environment is not included in the pruchase price.

Imagine what having clean water is worth in $$$, its so high its almost impossible to calcuate.

Economic markets do not include environmental costs and currently, as the debate over climate change demonstrates, we are a long way from agreeing on a realistic pricing for the costs to the environment.

Till then the believers and the sceptics will continue to battle in the media and everyone will just get sick of the whole issue and loose sight of the core problem, a society that has lost touch with the planet that sustains us.

I think its time some people watched
The Obama deception and Food Inc.
on youtube or Prisonplanet.com
they show what a bunch of scum the world politicians and councils really are and how they are just there to let corporations/bankers do what they want with our world and hard earned cash.

There needs to be a total destruction of our current government much like the
french revolution but we are all too media scared into their nuclear lifestyle
for that to happen.

Its also important to remember that goods made for example in countries where
pollution laws are non existent are cheaper in the fact they can dump anything
down stream and also use slave labour.
For me this is also a big issue that consumers must curve but community groups
need to be much more powerful even surpass and overtake politicians and councils.

We need community groups to decide our fate not these scumbags.

There are so many factors to consider for example the US grows soy bean all over
the world for stock feed. 90 per cent of the the 100% soybeans grown are for stock
feed. Where 20% of that soybean could feed the hungry world.

Cows eating soybeans is like your dog eating cheese and yoghurt only.
Meaning cows produce 20 to 30 times more methane than with proper feed.

It takes 10kg of vegetable amino acids to make 1kg of beef.

It takes 100,000 litres of water to make 1kg of beef.

The yearly beef consumption of a single Australian adult,
has an average water footprint of 1,393,000 litres a year.

One kilogram oven-dry wheat grain, 715 - 750 litres of water.

1kg maize, 540 - 630L.

1kg soybeans, 1650 - 2200L.

1kg paddy rice, 1550L.

1kg beef, 50,000 - 100,000L.

1kg clean wool, 170,000L.

1kg white rice, 2385L.

1kg potatoes, 500L.

Source: CSIRO; www.savefoodstopwaste.com

Also for driving our cars
1kg of beef emits more green houses gases than going for a three hour drive whilst leaving all the lights on at home.

If Aussie community groups had the power we would:
Eat biodynamic fed cattle, goats, chickens and pigs (many that can graze on weeds).

Make our faeces into fertilizer instead of just been processed and dumped into the ocean.
much like some company is know doing in NSW.

Drink beer made from millet and or native developed plant grains.

Have wood in all shapes and sizes made from processed bamboo
It grows faster, need less water, abosorbs more co2 than all other plants,
resists rot, bacteria and termites, needs no fetilisers and more.

We would drive cars on LPG injection only and bio-diesel for heavy machinery
with LPG boosting, and have batteries made locally rather than overseas.

Australian thin film solar manufacturing or thermal sun desert turbine generators.

Have more free sport fields by disallowing those A-wipe developers.

Community owned banks

and basically control of our lives again.

I say its time to form communnal entities (not religious cults)
made from housewives, house husbands and school groups, rather than
these scum business mentality politicians and local councils.

The only way to take back what past generations have lost is through
more community groups.

Our datsun community is an example of how good a community can be.

Climate science (like all science) has no proven facts one way or the other, merely observations with more or less sample points and different people interpreting the results (usually to show what they were looking for in the first place).

This stuff will never be "proven" or "disproven" its unfortunately becoming simply a matter of survival.

We need functioning ecosystems in order to survive thus we should value them at, I suggest, the expense of corporate profits.

Yes, I have an environmental science degree and yes I am biased towards that point of view I make no apologies for that but this whole debate over climate change and its sceptics is completely missing the point and is delaying/distorting the public perception of environmental issues in order to prolong business as usual.

As the ol indian proverb goes...

Only when we have caught the last fish and cut down the last tree will we realise we cannot eat money.

Food for thought ;)

(end rant)

I think its just paying to shift the blame.