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Nissans are not revered for their quality.

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Nismo were probably recommended as racing class may have been restricted.

fair price but T50 Race box in NZ didnt sell

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The facts are pretty simple you asked what gearboxes I had twice and you ignored my previous post or skipped it.
Do you want to compare my ex Nismo F5C56A opt 2 to a T50 stocky? You have to understand what an opt 2 commands these days and also Gordon Dobey who I mentioned earlier knew of these boxes inside out as he serviced them for the Nissan racing team locally and abroad.
I got the box from one of his clients and had no idea of their worth in those days just bought the car as deceased estate. Yet Gordon preferred to use the T50 himself for local racing for the same reasons Ive mentioned earlier.

You then say my experience has no bearing cause you and your brother have 2 boxes to compare? then why ask me what I had? which I answered already. You get a good 56a 4 speed and its only comparable to a toyota K40. You are talking chalk and cheese by comparing your 4 speed vs been around australia driven by every OZ teen bogon corolla box. Just using one example proves nothing you are right there however it is comical to think you praise your box so highly.

Since we are talking about 5 speeds, why on earth are you asking if I had a 4 speed close ratio box?! you need to read again we are talking 5 speeds, no offence but you are getting ridiculous in even asking and going over the same slate. I would not bother with a nismo 4 speed unless it had gearing that even Nismo didnt supply. You have to be more specific if you want some data or robotic answer to suit whatever its is you dont want to comprehend.

Also I dont need any history about Nismo or fanboy web data just the facts and experience shows clearly Nissan did not make the datsun box as quality and abundant as toyota has specifically the T series box for their A, K, T, 4age, R, S and other engines.

Take a look at the workings of a T50, the finish on the casting, the synchros sizing and every part of the T50 says quality. The Nissan just pumped them out and hoped owners didnt do skids with them.

My drama in the past with the t50 was the first gear choice and close ratios choices available seemed too expensive but Ive found fully optioned t50s for around the 2500aud mark and also a complete gearset from Argentina is possible for 1000usd.

If you can get yourself something like my old boxes and have the T50s to compare them on the road which is where most of our datsun spend time on you would have a different idea of quality.

Now if you want to be more pedantically stuck with Nissan are the best for every A series just ask other members what they think here of the datsun 5 speed boxes vs the t50 for track and rallye. Get more than a couple opinions. Try RC and some racers up north that use the T50 instead of often needs rebuilding datsun 56 and 60 series boxes.

I said it earlier if you prefer and are able to get the original gear in good condition go for it, I and other prefer the non original T50 behind an A.
Some prefer the 71b behind their boosted As and even that particular setup had issues using a quality 71 factory close ratio Z box!

Even here with my local Jp nationals the knowlege is clear that datsun boxes to Toyota are what suzuki boxes are to Honda.

My opt 2 CR box had a 2.67 first gear, so please do some more research and try to see that even that gear ratio is required for a good take off almost anywhere with a highly strung A series road or track.

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D,
You haven't answered the questions im asking you mate.Im simply asking for you to elaborate why one gearbox is superior to another by stating facts backed up by results and data.Not about experiences as different people have different experiences with all types of gearboxes.Too many variable factors i.e gear fluid used,condition of gearbox,driving style etc etc

and as ddgonzal stated, its all relative.So lets just talk about the gearboxes in question.
How many cars you and your friends have driven don't change any attributes to gearboxes were comparing!!
Its irrelevant information...My 56 a 4speed shifting smoother than my brothers close ratio t50 behind his worked k-series is irrelavant and the reason why i never even mentioned it in the first place.

so lets keep it simple and factual.Even better if we can both provide verifiable links to back up our discussion.

I.e For perfomance benefits,
Gearbox a is better than gearbox b because it has better gear ratios,
gearbox a is better than gearbox b because its lighter in weight
Gearbox a is a true direct fifth 5 speed , gearbox b is a 4 speed with an overdrive gear
Gearbox a is a bolt on,Gearbox b isn't
etc etc etc
Being popular and affordable has nothing to do with comparing performance gains.Esp not if your planning on getting a custom gearset for the T50.

Data and facts!!This is the type of information i was after,

So explain as to why a "STOCK" T50 gearbox is "SUPERIOR" or would perform better than a F5C56A behind an 1200-1300 A-series.Facts,links,sources...

Lets discuss about their attributes rather than irrelevant information.

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I will ask specific questions to avoid misunderstanding each other.Hopefully i get specific answers.

Now the 56a close ratio you were refering to,
was it a F5C56A or the 56a 4 speed close ratio?

Nismo competition purposely built and recommended the F5C56A for 1270cc-1300cc engines! Why someone would spend that kind of money and put them behind an A16 makes no sense,atleast to me anyway.There is a reason products have recommendations.From brake fluids to performace parts.

Can you also elaborate how you went about putting straight cut gears to the first 2 gears of your gearbox?

For competition, rarely do you get to use the first gear unless in rally.Doesn't make any sense why instead of gear 2,3,4 and 5 which are mostly used in racing ,one would straight cut the first gear which will be least used if used at all,straight cut the 2nd and then leave 3rd,4th and 5th gear.What would be the purpose of doing that to the first gear?


cheers

Sorry I thought I answered your questions before you asked them 3 posts ago!

However again yes to all your queries and yes I know of the issues Bill faced for the gearbox over 10 years ago thats why I asked you to read it, he used to run A series in the past behind all kinds of nissan boxes and later moving to the G13b legendary all alloy suzuki motor chose the t50 for many reasons Ive mentioned. Also if you are racing or restoring an original or historic spec race datto its hard to go past a nismo box thats a given, no arguments there.

For the average datsun guy the T50 is the winner but for the rare datto boxes some skill is required to make them live longer. Ive had T50s in celicas, corollas and in more than one datsun, they are all superior boxes to any nissan 56,60 and even 63 series stock and close ratio. I would not just thump the T50 on a race track for the fun of it, I do have mechanical sympathy for any make of car but you are being a little out of context by stating the race track which is what most datto guys here dont ever sniff and mainly dream about. The longevity of datsun gearboxes is an issue.

Now to elaborate further - I sold my close ratio 56a which was fully recoed and after a year behind an A16 2nd started to crunch, new straight cut gears were used on 1st and 2nd after its last rebuild and stripped 2nd gear gearing down from 4th and 3rd at calder. I treated that engine like my previous R100 bridgeport but I treat all gear changes with upmost respect. The T50 I used no cluth on was due to a broken clutch cable on the way home from a cruise, now I had the same issue on a fresh 60L and ruined that box behind a highly strung A14 I just acquired from a deceased estate with all work done by ex-nissan race mechanic Gordon Dobey a works datsun 1000 mechanic in the 60s when they won at bathurst. The strength of datsun 56 and 60 series boxes is similar to suzuki boxes they wear quickly after 200k.

Ive owned plenty of gearboxes from mazda, triumph, rovers, jags, nissan, mitsu, bogon taxis, vw, bmw, benz and have a large circle of mates from 35-70 into cars, with myself 46 big ones and Toyota and T5 world class boxes are the cream of afford ability and logic.

Even a good 63L behind a Stanza doesnt last long with a stock L16 and behind a 180b sss with stock twin su L18 also has a short life and even a well setup 71b behind a strong L28 has issues once you race them with stock internals and gearing. Nissan boxes require tweaking many box people dont know about unless they are datsun die hards. Yet you walk into many reco places and they are like what a datto box, yeah we do them but we do mainly whoredens and frauds etc.

A w58 which is equivalent to a 71c ca18det box is superior and yet lighter.
Toyota knows gearboxes better than Nissan always has and even "used" or copy Porsche knowhow for the better German synchros as the Japs could not duplicate the same quality or design for them. Toyota also went to Yamaha to design better heads, Nissan studied other makes. Japanese have always copied and gone from there.

Even the Nissan boxes outweigh the equivalent Toyota variants

Now if you read my post before hand you would again not have to ask the same questions again. If you prefer datsun go for it, I prefer toyota for gearboxes behind an A series and if you go racing you can buy a t50 close ratio race setup with all the good stuff done to it for 2500aud to 3k if you know where to look.

Also given the chance I would go a stumpy 71c with close ratio setup if someone made the adaptor plate for it but would also go a T5 bw world class box from a 86+ chevy s-10. Those boxes are 35kg and close ratio gearsets cost 1095usd for any ratio choice under the sun.

Now the T50 is used by plenty on this forum and although I would love a close ratio version again as I had in my old ta22 with 1900cc 2tc. I would settle for a stocky again than a datsun one which are too rare now to mistreat or rebuild without costing a kidney.

All interesting though but that kit on Jap yahoo is just for locals we in Oz have the Dellows as mentioned earlier.

At least we have choices but in reality our choices are getting more and more expensive. Thats something corollas peeps never have an issue with and must say corolla peeps are worse drivers than datto guys. Corolla owners are more tight reared than almost any car owner. When you deal with lots of them you just can wait to deal and trade with datsun peeps.

A12grunt,

I tried to locate a W50 before the T but the 4x4 truck guys snipe those and shelve them for the rock crawling. They are like trying to get a datsun trans in my location. sucks.

once word gets out about some cheap strong types of things and then become rare and expensive :(

W50 Iron boxes are good trans for taking abuse.

The highest output engine Nissan put behind 60-series was 80 HP.

I drove my 56 boxes frequently without using the clutch. Great transmissions! Lightweight and shift nicely. And fit the A engine with no mods, straight bolt.

It's all relative.

D,
Just because ur t50 was shifting smooth doesn't mean they all do.Many many threads on the corolla forums of people complaining about their t50s crunching and breaking.Most will prob be as a result of the driver and maintenance.
Shifting smoothly can come down to very simple things i.e the type of gearbox fluid, clutch adjustment,condition of gearbox etc etc

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D,once again no offence intended,

Have you ever driven or owned a vehicle with a 56A 5 speed or a 56A Nismo gearbox??

Have you driven any of those gearboxes past 200,000km to know they get clunky?

Alot of gearboxes can be changed gears without clutch..i dont see your point there..That has nothing to do with the gearbox being good or better.That depends on the skill and experience of the driver.How long do you think it will last doing that?
Many wouldn't risk it as it Just takes one misjudgment of the gearbox and engine speeds and you wreck your gearbox.

You can shift your T50 without using the clutch ....id like to see you attempt that in a race track and see how long it will last.Once again gearboxes break due to such habits...

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This is straight off his webpage! The race gearbox he is referring to and comparing to a stock t50 is a k50 close ratio direct fifth gearbox.As you can see from that statement, he prefers a closer ratio for racing.Maybe not for street.
You should also see read on his webpage the effort he went through just to achieve a direct fifth gear.Have look at his gear pattern!

http://www.billzilla.org/drivetrn.htm
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Thats minimum 2500aud to land in Oz by the time you pay the import duty taxes,commission to agent and shipping fees.Add an aftermarket gearset (if you can find one) and the price comes to over 6000 aud landed and fitted....

Mattndew76,

not arguing mate.All in good datto spirit
Always good to share information.I red your thread.Very good build.Seeing you will be running a very good diff,supercharger and wide tyres due to flaring,id recommend you read the toyota and corolla forums about the t50 boxes.The gearbox becomes the weakest link if your running a very good diff and strong axles.Not to mention if you use very sticky wide tires for events like drag racing etc
Have a read on corolla/toyota forums,Might slightly convince you to go straight to the toyota W series esp if supercharging.

Funny how the corolla forums don't recommend the T50 behind supercharged or very modified engines.Its NOT regarded as a "strong" gearbox on their forums.And those who use them with modified engines do stress the point that how you drive it will make it or break it.Once again,depending on the driver.

Also as a side note ive noticed many mention on the toyota forums is that The highest output engine from factory behind the T50 gearboxes was 124bhp.

cheers

I will even consider matthew76's adaptor plate to bolt onto the back of the A series to accept either a T50 with T series bellhousing or a suzuki jimny M13a box with bellhousing
eg. the top one is a post 2007 box
http://s735.photobucket.com/user/zuke ... r/media/P1050836.jpg.html

I mentioned your recent questions on previous post, even the stock T50 is a better box than any A series 5 speed close ratio or not for its shifting ability which is silk not clunky even after 200,000kms. You can even shift a t50 into gear without using your clutch they are that good.

For those who want original Nissan by all means but this still does not warrant the fact the toyota t50 is a superior box from stock.

People like Billzilla has a good write up on them if you are not convinced but my experience with all these boxes Ive owned in the last 30 years the t50 Ive reconsidered by overcoming my datto biased mentality to accept it is for its weight, a perfect alternative box for the A series.

The A series donk is a competitor to the K series which really is the toyota engine the T50 also sits behind on many guises. The T50 is so good it even sits behind 2t, 3t, 4age and many other toyota engines. t50 behind a hot 4age is like running a 60 series box behind an sr16ve.

Even the K series is a more reliable engine than the A series, not better in hp or higher performance just over engineered to last much like a U20 vs an L20.

I would much prefer to run a 71c series with a cut and shut for the extra 5-8kg or even consider someone like Matthew76's future t50 adaptor plates to A series auto bell or adaptor plate to the back of an A series so it fits the T series bellhousings.

The yahoo auction kit sold for 177,000 yen still a good price if you consider its a bolt on kit