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#1 Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
AndyM1 Posted on: 2012/12/1 23:46
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Hi Guys I am hopeing some of you guys in the know wouldnant mind giving me a bit of a crash course in this SC and fuel injection set up I have.
I have only been into modified cars a short while and I have been trying to gather as much information on this set up as possible.
Ok so looking at the picture the fuel rail / manifold and the air intake I presume that is the name for the part which the airfilter is attached to. Would be sold together?

I have been trying to work out how both of these parts work together I understand the fuel rail part but I dont really understand where the air intake would mount upto on the engine?
THe fuel rail is in really good condition as are the injectors all the rubbers are like new ect. So I am confident this would be in good sellable condition, probably going to give it a really good clean up and maybe some paint before I sell it.

I am completely lost with the SC though, I have spent some time looking through members posts on here but thier are still some things that I am unclear on.
With the pulley wheel should that just spin freely? because this one doesant it mooves and then locks up then you spin it the other way and its the same so I am not sure if one of the drive gears are locking up?
I have been trying to work out what does what on the SC, now I know that the pulley from the SC connects onto a the crank pulley of the engine to generate the compressed are. So I take it that I would need to change the crank pulley on the engine to allow another belt?
One part which is confusing me is the part where the hoseing connects too. I take it thier is a inlet and a out let on the SC but I am not sure how all the hoseing connects up Ie what goes to the intercooler and what and how the hoseing connects up to the engine?

Lastly can I run the SC with my webber carby? I have read that it would be better to run with the fuel rail but I would prefer to run it without the fuel injection?
I have been searching the net a fair bit but I am only finding really modern setups that doesant look like anything I have.
The guy who is selling this lot has dropped the price but I think hes going to drop the price even more because the SC needs some work ect.
So I would like to sell the injection set up and keep the SC for myself.

Thanks for reading and any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks


#2 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
clyons8 Posted on: 2012/12/2 4:05
Quote:
Ok so looking at the picture the fuel rail / manifold and the air intake I presume that is the name for the part which the airfilter is attached to. Would be sold together?


Not necessarily, it is a throttle body. The four bolts on the inlet manifold can accept several different types of Nissan throttle bodies.

Quote:
I have been trying to work out how both of these parts work together I understand the fuel rail part but I dont really understand where the air intake would mount upto on the engine?


The air intake, or throttle body and air filter are the beginning of the induction system, when you press the accelerator pedal the throttle valve located inside the throttle body opens up to allow more air in. They are typically located in the front left corner of the engine bay.

Quote:
With the pulley wheel should that just spin freely?


Yes it should.

Quote:
because this one doesant it mooves and then locks up then you spin it the other way and its the same so I am not sure if one of the drive gears are locking


Has something fallen into the inlet or the outlet. If it moves then locks up there could be something jamming it up, proceed with care.

Quote:
I have been trying to work out what does what on the SC, now I know that the pulley from the SC connects onto a the crank pulley of the engine to generate the compressed are. So I take it that I would need to change the crank pulley on the engine to allow another belt?


Yes, there are many types of a-series crank pulleys and a handful of those are multi groove units to run multiple belts.

Quote:
Lastly can I run the SC with my webber carby? I have read that it would be better to run with the fuel rail but I would prefer to run it without the fuel injection?


You can but the current setup is quite smart with the fuel participating in only the last segment of the circuit after all of the major volumes. If you put a weber as draw through and then plumb in the inter cooler you will run a very dangerous setup and it is not recommended. If the carby is set up as a blow through you should be fine to run a cooler.

Hope that helps a bit.


#3 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
AndyM1 Posted on: 2012/12/2 5:13
Thanks very much thats a big help, I finally got onto the guy who owns it all.
And he was able to pass on a bit more info, I dont know if it makes any sense to you guys or not but he said with the inlet and out let of the SC with the air intake which has the filter on it that plums into the intake of the SC then the outlet of the SC goes into the inter cooler ( This is the part which I am not sure of ) then out of the intercooler and into the head but im not understanding how the pipeing would run from the cooler and into the head I take it via the airfilter which sits on the carby?
But like you said the airintake also has a throttle body on thier which looks like it would just bolt upto where my webber cabby bolts onto the manifold. So im a bit confused about that part.
Thanks


#4 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
bakat Posted on: 2012/12/2 5:37
in your case, i think the air flow should be

air filter + TB > Supercharger > intercooler > manifold.

you can have weber supercharged engine. there are two methods: blowthrough and drawthrough. in drawthrough, the airflow is carb > sc > manifold. using this setup, you can't use an intercooler. the fuel will condense in the intercooler. plus point for this setup, it's easier to set it up right.

another method is blowthrough. sc > carb > manifold. while this is harder to do, they have their own plus point. it is harder because you have to completely seal your carb in boost, your fuel pressure should conform with the boost. but you can use your intercooler for better knock resistance.


#5 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
clyons8 Posted on: 2012/12/2 6:16
Quote:
And he was able to pass on a bit more info, I dont know if it makes any sense to you guys or not but he said with the inlet and out let of the SC with the air intake which has the filter on it that plums into the intake of the SC then the outlet of the SC goes into the inter cooler ( This is the part which I am not sure of ) then out of the intercooler and into the head but im not understanding how the pipeing would run from the cooler and into the head I take it via the airfilter which sits on the carby?


The concept is simple, the supercharger has an air inlet and an air outlet. The air inlet accepts incoming air that is regulated by the throttle body, once the air has passed through the supercharger, which compressors the air it is now delivered to the engine via the inlet manifold which delivers the fuel. it looks to me that the major components are there but there is some plumbing or if you like piping, missing.

Quote:
But like you said the airintake also has a throttle body on thier which looks like it would just bolt upto where my webber cabby bolts onto the manifold. So im a bit confused about that part.


Your carburetor would take the place of the throttle body because it has a throttle body already built into it. You just install it just as it is before the super charger where it will behave under normal circumstances because it is before the supercharger thus not experience any increase in air pressure. If the carburetor was 'being fed' by the supercharger, thus located mechanically after the supercharger it would be experiencing conditions dissimilar to it's normal use, if would be under pressure. You can work around this but the easiest format would be, carb to supercharger inlet and supercharger outlet to stock factory manifold.

The danger with putting an air fuel mixture through an intercooler is that if you get any sort of backfire, very common in first tune-startup you will get a very aggressive explosion that can be fatal.


#6 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
Posted on: 2012/12/2 6:45
Why use a carb if you have an injection manifold and injectors, just set up efi


#7 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
A14force Posted on: 2012/12/2 7:02
Quote:

bakat wrote:

another method is blowthrough. sc > carb > manifold. while this is harder to do, they have their own plus point. it is harder because you have to completely seal your carb in boost, your fuel pressure should conform with the boost. but you can use your intercooler for better knock resistance.


While this works fine with a turbo, it's not so straight forward with a supercharger. So long as the inlet of the blower is open, the blower will make full boost. So when you close the throttle on the carb, the blower will presurise the inlet, blow the seals in the carb, and pop off the intercooler pipes. you'd need to rig up the clutch (If it had one) to disengage the blower when the throttle blades were closed. (or run a second throttle body on the inlet of the charger, run in sync with the carb throttle.


#8 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
AndyM1 Posted on: 2012/12/2 7:11
The main reason why I didant want to run a EFI setup along with the SC is because I really want to keep it basic, I dont want to make a huge project out of it to begin with so just really wanted it simple and Achievable. Im not chaseing after as much power as possible.


#9 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
Posted on: 2012/12/2 8:36
Efi isn't about outright power its about driveability through smooth power delivery through the tuning. Easier long term to set up and have tuned then stuffing round with Carby setups. Seems a waste of an a series efi inlet manifold if you didn't use it.


#10 Re: Help needed with this fuel injection & SC setup.
jmac Posted on: 2012/12/2 9:32
if you go to blowthrough with a supercharger, there is one more option (instead of a throttle plate connected before the supercharger inlet, so that it closes when your carby throttle plate closes ) - and that is to have the second throttle plate (or even a pop-off valve) on the supercharger outlet, connected in 'reverse' so it only closes when your carb throttle opens. That way, at part throttle, it will vent off the excess air that has come through the supercharger, so the carb won't see pressurised air. If you don't use a second linked throttle a pop-off valve (more or less just a regular turbo style blow off valve) will do as well (some would argue even better). AFAIK the aftermarket supercharger kits for blowthrough carb setups on 'dinosaur' v8s all use such an arrangement.

The one difference this would make is that at part throttle the supercharger can still be fully engaged, but it won't be compresing any air, as it's just flowing through and then out the bov/vent. This constant stream of air through the charger (and no boost - remember compressing teh air also creates heat) keeps it cooler, and it ought to last a little bit longer (possibly).

FWIW, you'll tend to get to the point of the limit of the supercharger rpms/boost level, where it will risk the supercharger self destructing, relatively early in the game, compared to some aftermarket blowers. Which means you could (for simplicity sake) just run a drawthrough carb setup, without the intercooler, and run water injection, and you'll be at the limits of the supercharger before you reach the limits of the amount of boost you can run without detonation (well at least as long as you are using water injection). In this case the drawthrough option and the water injection aren't technically superior in any sense, it's more a case of they are typically a lot easier to get working for a first adventure with forced induction.

Having said all that, the price of efi computers (and you certainly don't need the most expensive one or anything like it) has come down so much, and you have a manifold/fuel system (or teh beginning of one) already, it'd be hard to argue against its use.

On the supercharger you have - in their original factory fitment, there was a bypass valve that would let air travel from the intake pipe on the supercharger, through a pipe all the way around the s/charger and plumbed back into the supercharger outlet pipe. That way, when the supercharger wasn't spinning, all teh air the engine requires would flow around this 'detour' and none would need to try and get through the supercharger. The supercharger itself was switched off most of the time.



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