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1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
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Hey guys,
I'm looking at selling up my current race car (180sx, sr20det, etc) and building a weekend/race datsun. At this stage looking at either a 1200 or 1000 ute.

From what I've read the 1000 is around 100kg lighter then the 1200. I"m guessing the body is about 30kg lighter and the rest in the suspension motor and gearbox?

FYI I'd be changing the motor to likely a Nissan cr (1.2 bored to 1.3), then potentially re-doing the suspension in time to something like miata (Na mx5). So the difference in weight of suspension, engine and gearboxes is negligible.

I guess my question is, would a 1200 or 1000 base make much difference? If so why.

Posted on: 2016/6/27 10:45
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
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The 1K is older, is leaf-sprung front and rear, and are far harder to come across. So if your idea of fun is fixing probable rust, fabricating strut towers and what not, when you eventually manage to find one, then get a 1K.

Posted on: 2016/6/27 11:08
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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the unfamiliar with 1000 have no idea how good the suspension and lack of rust they have to their younger 1200 brothers. Struts are for cheapness double wishbone suspension with transverse leaf like a corvette is the good stuff.

The leaf can be ditches for coilovers as well so no need for pogostick strut suspension

Posted on: 2016/6/27 15:29
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
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Yes, the 1000 has superior front suspension, like a Corvette. It has the same type of rear suspension as the 1200, but more expensively refined (iso-clamps and light alloy diffs). Add to that the 1000's substantial weight advantage and advanced rust protection (galvanized steel)

Suspension, motor and gearbox are just about same weight 1200/1000. So the 200 lb weight savings is in the chassis, which is narrower and shorter than the 1200

Does your racing class rules give any advantage to the 1000? Are short-wheelbase or low tare-weight cars penalized?

Posted on: 2016/6/27 23:51
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
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Hey Rocher, where are you based? Might be able to help you.

Doubt there's 100kgs between them. The 1200 coupe is around 710kgs vs 680kgs for the 1000 coupe. The 1000 though carries its weight lower.

Posted on: 2016/6/28 0:14
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
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Looking at improved production (ipr) class for hillclombs and track days to start with, then possibly super sedans if I decided to modify the suspension type.

Main restrictions for ipr are no mods to suspension pick-up points or changing of suspension type, plus engine has to be from the same company (Nissan/datsun) with the same number of cylinders in the same configuration. Also wheel flares cannot make the car more then 100mm wider then standard and pretty much no aero.
Super sedans are pretty much anything goes but the floor and firewall must remain 'standard', but anything short of a tube chassis doesn't seem to be an issue. But the car has to have the same/similar shape, so no crazy aero.

Basic plans for ipr are Nissan cr12de bored out to 1.3 with a Toyota 5 speed, then super sedans will change gearbox to a transaxle gearbox (in the hopes of better weight distribution and less overall weight) running double a arm (double wishbone) suspension front and rear.

Located in Adelaide, south australia.

Posted on: 2016/6/28 6:36
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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pov pack 2 door sedan is 625kg, I got mine down to 596kg with little work

If you can use an all alloy honda v4 with sequential box and electric reverse
that in itself will lower the weight 40-50kg as the A10 with 4 speed is over
100kgs dressed while bike box combo is 50kg. Lighter alloy radiator with
billet coil overs to remove the front leaf and gut doors from window mechanism
and run lexan with sliding setup -20kg then all adds up again in roll cage :)

wheel base is the same as the 1200 and Shelby cobra @ 89 inches

Posted on: 2016/6/28 15:41
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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D which Honda V4 do you speak of? VFR 1000 motors weigh very close to 200lbs complete, by comparison a raced prepped A12-A15 is 185-200lbs. The VFR power outputs vary between 115-150hp. Although this is a moot point as he has to use a Nissan motor

OK you can yell at me for being a pedant but the 1200 has a 90" wheelbase.

My pick would be a 1200 as it's likely easier to find all the goodies for it. (If that's not correct than its down to whichever one you like.

The lower weight 1000 has it s appeal but if you build a 1200 carefully you can keep the weight way down. I didn't do this as I bought goodies based on what could be had cheap, my cars a porker at 740kg.

Tom

Posted on: 2016/6/29 6:08
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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maybe its the early pan st1100 motor which is quoted or the early vrf700-800 which
are heavier and antique compared to the 1200 even the heavy flat 6 goldwing?
The late pan st1300 although convetional v shapes only makes 87kw wide headed twin cam
Open in new window


the univam sohc VFR1200F is east west but still rear drive and 127kws
Open in new window


Quote:
VRF1200F- The new engine incorporates the single overhead camshaft distribution system called "Unicam" which was tested on Honda's offroad machines. This compact system reduces engine size, allowing it to be placed further forward in the frame while lowering the bike's center of gravity. This allows for better front wheel traction when cornering. A 28 positioning of crank pins and a specific [clarification needed] firing order of the cylinders resulted in an engine with perfect primary balance. Because of this, there is no balance shaft, further lightening the engine.[14] Instead of conventional direct mechanical connection from the rider's twistgrip to the throttle, electronic throttle control ("throttle by wire") commands the engine control unit to modulate engine power output. The configuration of the cylinders is also unusual. The V4 has the rear bank of cylinders paired closely together, with the big ends of their connecting rods on the inner sides of the crank journals. The forward bank of cylinders is conversely set outboard of the rear bank, with the big end journals mounted on the outer sides of the crank journals. This design allows for a much narrower engine at the rear, which makes the bike slimmer where it contacts the rider, and allows an easier reach to the ground from the seat.


this insignia at the front and back would confuse many
http://www.omnimoto.it/foto/popup/333 ... 200f-motore-v4-da-1237-cc

Attach file:



jpg  v4.jpg (7.34 KB)
737_5773616780718.jpg 144X357 px

Posted on: 2016/6/29 6:36

Edited by D on 2016/6/29 7:13:33
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Re: 1200 vs 1000 (weight difference for racing)
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has to be a car engine with the same number of cylinders from the same manufacturer as the car. so nissan motors or datsun motors that are inline 4cyl.

nissan CR seem to be the lightest i can find with capacity around 1.3ltrs
see here for info
http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=CR

If i decided to do a PhD in mechanical engineering next year i will attempt to get a project optimising the design of the 1 litre CR engine and try to match power/torque with the larger motors in the series WITHOUT forced induction.
Think koenigsegg's 'free-valve' engine and some of the possibilities for improving bottom end, plus improving top end... plus the usual intake/exhaust tuning and a slight bump in compression ratio, but will limit myself to pump fuel

Posted on: 2016/6/29 7:27
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