I had a similar experience at a vintage race I did in early October.................knowing that most vintage clubs in the US prefer a notched down version of what we'd run at a SCCA race I tired to keep myself in check. I did give a Alfa Guiletta driver a scare as I went round the outside of him at a little over 90MPH, ended up with the outside tires hanging half in the dirt as he almost moved over into me......................in one of the races a guy in a 930 Grp 4 Porsche came roaring past then parked it in the next couple of turns................most of the drivers that weren't up to speed also knew they weren't up to speed............although some thought they were. In fact a fellow SCCA driver in one of the front running Z cars in the Alfa - Datsun - Porsche event wanted to say that he was appreciative of my being aware of the faster class of cars passing and actually being up to speed in the corners.

It all comes down to knowing what 10/10ths really is and not lying to yourself about whether you are really up to speed or not (see my comments about kids on 85cc MX bikes blowing past me). I have no problems with someone running 8/10ths at a track day or in a valuable vintage car or a club race just be mindful of it.............and don't kid yourself.

Tom

hahaha Posers looking into the mirror :)))

Well, I had a similar experience but it seems a whole lifetime ago. In the early '80's I built the 1200 GT5 car. I was able to talk the local Vintage club into letting me go to the track on one of their test days. I was minding my own business when a guy in front of me in a 911 went slithering off of the track into the cat tails that surrounded a little pond. The "chairman" i guess you would call him of the Vintage club came over after the session and told me that I had to quit being so "aggressive". I loaded up the car and left. I didn't feel that braking deeper than the posers was being all that aggressive and if the guy gets lost because he is watching me in the mirror that is his own fault.

Just need a Nissan Flying Feather radical :))
with wider flares than this one I mocked up ;)

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The radicals here run SCCA's D-sports racer class, but believe it or not they are actually slower than the fastest cars. The class allows 900lbs with driver. As I've mentioned before I ran this class from 97-2003, even the stockish Yamaha 1000 in our car put out about 175 horsepower, there is simply no comparison to a road car even one as wildly modified as the little Fiats in that video. Your talking 2G+ cornering and 3G's on the brakes...........down force makes such a difference, the driving style is different as well.

I had not been in a sports racer for about a year when a buddy gave me a ride in one of the school radicals..............it took two corners before the view out the front stopped looking like someone speed up the film. If only once everybody should have the chance to drive a single seater, something at least at the level of a base radical or FF2000. Formula Fords that schools run are pretty cool but lack the oomph and down force of a Radical or 2.0 liter FF.

Cool video and those are some meaty slicks on the little buzz bombs.


Tom

Fiat are the italian datsuns but no where as reliable!

However the 600, 850 and nikki are great lil jiggers
with anything other than fiat engines :)

Id love for one of those guys to get hold of a 1000
or even a honda z600 :))

aaah the italians are pasionate about their motorsport , did anybody else notice how fast the little yellow fiat was with a much wider track at the rear than the front? (much like go-kart geometery) and how balanced the Radical chassis cars handled

corner speed you say....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUO-5LBozW0&feature=related

I too agree learning to drive in a lower hp "vintage" car is the best way to start your driving career,i've been involved in dirt speedway for the last 30 years and road circuit for the last 10 and while i too can admit to only ever being a novice racer , the time spent in 1000cc TQ midgets (three quarter speedcars in the USA) teaches you to have all the finese of sliding, throttle control, maintaining corner speed etc not to mention the finer points of chassis set-up that suprisingly have crossed over to the tar cars as well. And as you progress through the classes, midgets (4cyl 390+ rwhp) to sprintcars (V8 850+ rwhp) you also learn the art of keeping your tyres alive. And all with absolutly no electronic driver aids . I too have had the experience of doing a V8 corporate drive day at Eastern creek here in sydney and was dissapointed when the abs came on slowing down for turn 2 and then the traction control took over on the way out , allbeit saving me from embarasing myself in front of my work mates but it felt like driving a sponge that could do no wrong , not the raw "i demand respect " feeling you get from a sprintcar . but after all this it's still funny to have my wife or friends digging their fingers out of the dashboard at how fast you can actualy go round a corner.

Wow I'm surprised but this many replies...........admittedly it's a bit of a rant.


L18_B110............First, no kidding the 180SX had no grip. fun but not exactly the ideal track set-up eh. Now I'm not surprised about being faster in the corners, like you I expect this given my experience but what did surprise me a little is that the other drivers found this unsettling...........albeit only two.

The drivers at this level are still transitioning from the stand er on the nose steer with the wheel vs changing trajectory with the pedals but there are usually 4 or 5 of us in peddle cars out there, so again just a little surprised...........in fact I've coached a few of the Spec Miata gang so I know they're driving in a similar manner.

As for shiny new sports cars myself and one of the guys who runs a independent Porsche shop talk about running expensive cars, he has a customer who has an immaculate Turbo and wanted to run it...........he told the customer to bring his older less pretty 911 instead................I've always had the mindset that don't race a car you can't afford to wreck.

As for flogging new cars, no different then our old sleds; last year I helped a fellow SCCA club member get to the level with her S2000...................you could hang the car out and get it to lazy drift through every corner. I do confess that it was a little tough to go back to the 1200 as much fun as it is...............once she became comfortable with the car being slightly unstuck every where she picked up several seconds per lap.............sometimes it just takes someone who really is on the limit to show you that there is quite a bit of margin........this happens to me at the motocross track, those 10 yr little basterds on 80cc bikes are fast and well I'm old and chicken.

Just fun see link below on you tube. I come into view around minute 4 (3-4 cars ahead), minute 6 starts up the front stretch and you see a Mustang who thinks he's going to pass fall way behind, especially in turn 2..............wazoo fast BMW catches me at turn 4 then passes going over siad hump in track

(I typed out the you tube video as while I know how to drive, my computer skills are lacking).

HPF M3 at Low Boost on Nitto Invo Street Tires on Road Course Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NE5zGOs76A&feature=relmfu


Tom