No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster) 
Joined: 2008/10/10 22:02
From Melbourne Australia (and likely under the car)
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The gra stuff is good for most applications, but it is a fixed venturi, so it can be hard to get any sort of a good result when the carb is sized larger than ideal for the app, and sometimes even when sized ok, the metering rod thickness you need for just off idle is thinner than it might otherwise seem, then as rpms increase, the signal strength comes up and it goes very rich with the same thickness metering rod, meanign you sort of chase your tail a bit with it.
On the other hand, impco mixers are variable venturi - like the lpg version of an SU carb. Teh air valve moves up and down and maintains signal strength across a variety of engine rpms, engine size ranges and throttle positions. They are a very flexible design, and can be used in blowthrough apps.
It's a little bit hard to see from the picture, so I'm not 100% certain but it looks like the convertor balance pipe is routed to the air filter. This will make it lean out under boost. It's where it 'should' be for a non turbo app. For blowthrough, you need to run that hose from anywhere in the plumbing after the turbo compressor outlet and before the gra mixer (and the same would go for an impco mixer too!) . It'll lean out and eventually lpg would stop flowing altogether.
Mixtures and detonation with lpg is a little bit complicated (sort of) . Richer mixtures 'only' work for petrol engines (or methanol or e85 etc etc) because the extra fuel sucks heat out of the air as it vapourises. It doesn't get burned, it is added in there almost solely for it's ability to cool the intake charge a little bit more. So going a 'lot' richer than stoich on lpg (unless it is direct liquid injection) has no cooling effect so no anti-detonant effect either. What 'can' happen is that around stoich, although you have (in total) the right ratio of oxygen and propane molecules to burn completely, the lpg and air isn't mixed 100% perfectly, so not all of the air can get at the available propane and support complete combustion, using up all the available oxygen. So if you go a bit richer (with lpg) then there's a bit more propane, and you utilise just that little bit extra of the available air. So the total heat energy created (compared with running at 'true' stoich) is higher so combustion pressure a little higher, more heat to deal with, and so it's a little bit closer to the detonation (or pre-ignition) threshold. If you lean the lpg out leaner than stoich, then less and less of the available air (or the oxygen molecules within it) is used for combustion and less propane is burned, so less heat energy and thus lower combustion pressures, and slightly less chance of detonation. BUT of course, that also means less power is produced.
So you generally always want to make use of all the air you cram in there (if you don't what's the point of running X amount of boost at all?? :) . If you find it is detonating (and of course you can't let it do that for long!) then although you 'could' lean it down until it stops, you'd actually end up with a better result by running less boost, but burning all the available oxygen you do feed in there. The reason there is simple enough, less boost = less intake charge heat, so less boost but all the oxygen burned is safer than more boost, and a hotter charge, but then only burning/using 'most' of the available oxygen (if that makes sense!)
You'll also tend to find that since lpg is metered in as a gas not a liquid (carbies feed in fine droplets of fuel, but it is still a liquid and it has to change to a vapour state before it will ignite) it doesn't need to vapourise, so it will ignite with less delay. Meaning that (esp under boost) you'll tend to want to run less total ignition timing with lpg. Considering some high boost petrol engines run less than 20 degrees total timing, it's easy to run what seems like 'not that much' but is actually 'way too much' on a boosted engine on lpg.
With regard to boost levels, you'll tend to see some convertors start to seep (seep gas not coolant, and fwiw it will just blow away when the car is moving, so not an astronomical risk, but there is still SOME risk) at above somewhere around 10-12psi if they have the plastic covers. I'm not sure about the alloy covers beyond the fact that they are a bit better, I just have never tested how far. I think GRA used to advise never going above 20psi, but don't quote me on that. You'd probably want to look at perhaps 15psi as a safe limit (for the lpg system being able to supply it. What the engine will or won't handle boost/compression wise is a whole other story)
If I was in your shoes and couldn't get teh gra carb to run ok, I'd give serious thought to replacing it with an impco 200 mixer, which wouldn't take too much alterations to plumb in there, but that's just me.
Posted on: 2013/5/29 10:34
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