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L18_B110
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#26
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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Quote:

Rallytwit wrote:
I'm going to chime in along with L18_110: If your building a pukka back in the day vintage car then the 1200 strusts with coil overs with upgraded brakes (like the setup in the down load section on this web site) is the thing to have but because this set up is not very common these days it's pricey. For a track car why not use readily available parts. As for the bump steer, rather than drive it and find out...........why not take out the spring move the suspension through it's travel and measure it??

One thing I've wondered about; why -4 degrees of camber, most of the race set ups (including the aforementioned one here) I've seen call for -1.5 which on my car works quite well as various modern drivers have discovered. That much camber seems like the car would be darty as all get out during threshold braking.

Tom


I'll add that on a properly setup track car, you really only need to worry about bump steer through about 3" of total travel. But in my experience bump steer wasn't an issue with that setup.

most competition radials like lots of camber. With our DOT semi slicks you really need a minimum of 4 degrees to even get close to optimising carcass temps across the tyre. Race cars run between 5 and 7 degrees on the front! even my road car Supra runs 2.5 degrees camber and as much castor as the adjustment allows. Probably a touch too much for the street - it increases the car's tendancy to 'tramline'.

you can't get enough castor on these Datsun strut front ends to negate running lots of static camber on a track car. In fact we run as much castor as we can even with that amount of static camber.

It doesn't lead to instability under brakes. That normally indicates a problem with scrub radius.

If you use radial semi slicks, I suggest monitoring your tyre temps and trying the big camber setups. It really improves turn-in and mid corner grip. Do not try big camber setups on cross ply race tyres!

Posted on: 2008/11/27 4:53
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LittleFireyOne
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#25
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If you're going to go to the trouble of this setup you might as well dial in more caster than camber as it will affect the dynamic camber.

I'm all for this setup but another point to look at is the S13 is a heavier car and therefor the shocks and springs are tuned for that. I assume that aftermarket gear will be harsher again because the market never inteded it to be used on an >800Kg car.

It might just suit your requirements though so again I'm not saying don't do it.

Posted on: 2008/11/26 8:08
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cheater_5
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#24
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First off all its called wheel fitment. Second of all if anyone runs stretched tyres, oni camber etc and expects to do really well at grip racing or racing in general is kidding themselves. Good wheel fitment and everything that comes with it is what makes or breaks a street car imo and in most cases bad fitment is why modified street cars are so god dam lame.

Also b110/b210 struts are a mear 5.8mm smaller in diameter than b310 and if im not mistaken stanza etc, whish is not a lot but i agree more strength. There ARE short inserts for the smaller 45mm dia, actually quite a few ive found, nothing like the range for the larger struts but not difficult to get something that works well. So unless you're after a specific valving then thats covered. So we are using oem struts, that are small, light and do the job. I always thought that 1200's arent about having lots of power but being small, light weight and agile.

I realise the full s13 setup on a 1200 might in some cases be the cheaper/easier option than modifying the standard struts, but i have found that it really isnt that expensive to get what you want. I really didnt spend a fortune on adjustable camber, ride height, range of spring rates, and the larger s13 brakes. In fact it was all done on the cheap. Obviously its not the only way of doing it and by all means go ahead and fit whatever you want but im always going to think that most of the time you are better off sticking with oem struts

Posted on: 2008/11/26 5:09
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Rallytwit
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#23
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I'm going to chime in along with L18_110: If your building a pukka back in the day vintage car then the 1200 strusts with coil overs with upgraded brakes (like the setup in the down load section on this web site) is the thing to have but because this set up is not very common these days it's pricey. For a track car why not use readily available parts. As for the bump steer, rather than drive it and find out...........why not take out the spring move the suspension through it's travel and measure it??

One thing I've wondered about; why -4 degrees of camber, most of the race set ups (including the aforementioned one here) I've seen call for -1.5 which on my car works quite well as various modern drivers have discovered. That much camber seems like the car would be darty as all get out during threshold braking.

Tom

Posted on: 2008/11/26 3:49
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Martyg
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#22
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Thanks for the info cheater. If it was a mega buck project i would go maddat setup but wheres the fun in that . I will start playing with my 120y struts
Cheers Marty

Posted on: 2008/11/26 2:43
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L18_B110
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#21
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Quote:

cheater_5 wrote:
Personally i think its a bit stupid to put s13 strut assembly and lower arms in a 1200. Its just so unneccesary. What are you really getting from it? Height adjustment, better brakes, increased track (not neccesarily a good thing). Why bother with all that crap when you fit the s13 brakes to kb110 struts and convert them to coilovers quite easily. I mean if you can do the s13 strut setup into a 1200 you should more than be able to do coilover and s13 brakes on 1200 struts.

Non oem struts in 1200's/most cars is stupid without looking at what you really have done. As said before, you're completely messing up the suspension geometry.


parts availability and cost effectiveness. S13 stuff is everywhere and its cheap. if you go modifying the puny little OEM 1200 struts you have to buy the coilover kits which are always overpriced and custom strut inserts and valving to get a decent shock and even then you're stil left with the puny shock bore which will be less effective and more prone to overheating on a track car. doesn't sound so stupid to me.

175 tyres on a 7" rim on the other hand really makes you wonder!

Posted on: 2008/11/26 0:45
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DatsAndy
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#20
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Yeah feeding strawberries to a pig.

Posted on: 2008/11/25 22:54
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cheater_5
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#19
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didnt read most of the read because the title really tells it all.
Personally i think its a bit stupid to put s13 strut assembly and lower arms in a 1200. Its just so unneccesary. What are you really getting from it? Height adjustment, better brakes, increased track (not neccesarily a good thing). Why bother with all that crap when you fit the s13 brakes to kb110 struts and convert them to coilovers quite easily. I mean if you can do the s13 strut setup into a 1200 you should more than be able to do coilover and s13 brakes on 1200 struts.

Non oem struts in 1200's/most cars is stupid without looking at what you really have done. As said before, you're completely messing up the suspension geometry.

EDIT: sh*t i didnt see how ancient this thread is, lame

Posted on: 2008/11/25 20:46
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wards
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#18
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deep dish wheels = massive overload on outer bearing = bearing falure =$ but they do look cool

Posted on: 2008/11/25 8:03
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Martyg
Re: Dropped my 1200 onto its new S13 front suspension
#17
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Is anyone getting bumpsteer issues with this setup as mentioned? Im un certain which direction i should go stanza,s13,r31 or any others. BTW its a setup for my ca18 1200 ute

Posted on: 2008/11/24 9:24
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