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Main : Misc which one has better airflow?

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which one has better airflow?
which one has better airflow?Popular
SubmitterfrankthedolphintrainerMore Photos from frankthedolphintrainer   Last Update2008/1/3 1:22    Tell a friendTell a friend
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the one on the left is a ca18 throttlebody and the one on the right is the stock a14 efi. i would think that the ca one is better and i feel it would be an easy fit just by making a spacer, its going on the a14 plenum

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Poster Thread
sunny
Posted: 2008/1/4 12:20  Updated: 2008/1/4 12:20
Home away from home
Joined: 2003/7/13
From: T'ville
Posts: 491
 Re: which one has better airflow?
the primary hole was about 10 or 12 mm so i had it machined out to what is now the bigger throttle body is too big for the street it is not nice to drive and doesn't give you more power it just gives it to you all at once. the 55mm will flow more air than the thing needs at about 1/4 throttle opening if you want a plate to try it you can.

Poster Thread
frankthedolphintrainer
Posted: 2008/1/3 1:34  Updated: 2008/1/3 1:34
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2006/6/8
From: Brisvegas, oz
Posts: 2173
 Re: which one has better airflow?
the ca throttle body has a 55mm opening and the a14 has two holes 26 and 37mm.
the way i work it if i remember from school as the ca would be
pie r squared= 1590.43 mm

and the a14 would be
(pie r squared)+(pie r squared)=530.93+1075.21=1606.14

according to this the a14 would be better

i dont understand how a 1.4lt engine throttle body designed so long ago would be better than a 1.8lt throttle body design at a much later date

Poster Thread
ddgonzal
Posted: 2008/1/3 1:41  Updated: 2008/1/3 1:41
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Joined: 2001/5/3
From: 48 North
Posts: 31575
 Re: which one has better airflow?
Under 5000 RPM, undoubtedly the A14 one flows better in actual conditions. Above that I would hazard a guess that the CA one is better.

On a flowbench obviously the larger one will flow better. But that doesn't mean it will make more power on a small-bore piston engine.

Poster Thread
reuby_tuesday
Posted: 2008/1/3 4:13  Updated: 2008/1/3 4:13
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/14
From: Coondle, WA Australia
Posts: 2256
 Re: which one has better airflow?
Is the reason for the two butterflys is a primary/secondary setup like carbs have?

I would think that the ca one will flow better because there is less surface area to create friction, ie turbalance.

But with that in mind, I agree with dd. having massive airflow is not always ideal for a small bore engine doing small revs, but higher up then having the massive airflow can be benifical. I guess it depends on the application too.

A larger bore will have less velocity but more cc of air per section, where as a smaller one would have greater velocity, but less cc per section.
The two could in fact have the same total volume thru them over the rev range.

Does that make sense?

Poster Thread
frankthedolphintrainer
Posted: 2008/1/3 4:35  Updated: 2008/1/3 4:35
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2006/6/8
From: Brisvegas, oz
Posts: 2173
 Re: which one has better airflow?
yeah the two butterflys are primary and a secondary

Poster Thread
kululadotgroen
Posted: 2008/1/3 7:15  Updated: 2008/1/3 7:15
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2006/7/12
From: Cape Town ZA
Posts: 1054
 Re: which one has better airflow?
Remember that even though the surface area might be bigger, it might still not flow more. Airflow through a hole goes up exponentially as the hole size goes up. Also for outright flow the CA one will work better as there is less interference from metal parts like in the A14 one. Though for in town driving you might find that the A14 one will be better, as you'd get better low end torque with the smaller port, and it won't be as "nervous", since small throttle changes translates to small air flow changes.

Poster Thread
LittleFireyOne
Posted: 2008/1/3 9:05  Updated: 2008/1/3 9:05
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From: Townsville, Qld
Posts: 2964
 Re: which one has better airflow?
If you feel you want an in between you go with the CA item and make yourself an inlet restrictor bellmouth to stick in there?

Poster Thread
frankthedolphintrainer
Posted: 2008/1/3 9:22  Updated: 2008/1/3 9:22
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From: Brisvegas, oz
Posts: 2173
 Re: which one has better airflow?
its only gonna cost a couple of $ to change over so i feel why not ca throttle body it is

Poster Thread
NIS2000
Posted: 2008/1/3 10:08  Updated: 2008/1/3 10:08
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From:
Posts: 97
 Re: which one has better airflow?
CA one actually works out at 2374mm squared. I can see from the picture which one has the biggest surface area so i rechecked your calcs and thats what i got.

Poster Thread
frankthedolphintrainer
Posted: 2008/1/3 10:25  Updated: 2008/1/3 10:25
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2006/6/8
From: Brisvegas, oz
Posts: 2173
 Re: which one has better airflow?
ha so it is thats what being out of school for 7 years does to you. how smart am i, i used 22.5 as half of 55

Poster Thread
Dodgeman
Posted: 2008/1/3 11:08  Updated: 2008/1/3 11:08
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From: Southern Tablelands N.S.W. Australia
Posts: 8287
 Re: which one has better airflow?
The A14 for driveability, but lower max output, the CA for higher max output, but lower driveability.
Incidentally, the spelling is Pi, not pie. Pie's are what you eat.

Poster Thread
dattodude
Posted: 2008/1/3 12:58  Updated: 2008/1/3 12:58
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From: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 5806
 Re: which one has better airflow?
Remember the CA one has 12 pounds of boost behind it. A lot more 02 molecules are going through at the same air velocity.

I am just throwing in a discussion point on:
Q: 'When sizing a throttle body, does air pressure or density affect flow?'

I don't really know the answer.

Poster Thread
1200rallycar
Posted: 2008/1/3 15:13  Updated: 2008/1/3 15:13
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8221
 Re: which one has better airflow?
im guessing the dolphin trainer will be boosting this

other things to condier may be what connections you need and what computer etc

i made a plate to mount a camira throttle body to my a-series injection manifold as i used the camira computer everyhing plugged straight up and TPS was obviously already setup for that computer

{edit} oh yeah and just remembering the opening of the a-series manifold is quite an odd shape so you may end up with some horrible steps in your conection which will mean poor air flow between the two

i ported the opening of the manifold in some areas and actually used some metal goo to build some slope into the manifold to avoid steps in other areas

i also ported and knife edged the throttle body to improve flow... but that was probably a waste of time

Poster Thread
B210sleeper
Posted: 2008/1/3 18:50  Updated: 2008/1/3 18:50
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From: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2150
 Re: which one has better airflow?
there's always the GA16 throttle body, i used one of those since i had one laying around.

Poster Thread
frankthedolphintrainer
Posted: 2008/1/3 22:48  Updated: 2008/1/3 22:48
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Joined: 2006/6/8
From: Brisvegas, oz
Posts: 2173
 Re: which one has better airflow?
its definetely for boosted application, and if you look at the plenum side the opening hole (bottom of the pair shape) is the exact same size as the ca throttle body, to answer the question about sensor and such for the computer all are on the plenum side.


Poster Thread
Cameron_Datto
Posted: 2008/1/4 19:55  Updated: 2008/1/4 19:55
Home away from home
Joined: 2003/12/26
From: South East QLD
Posts: 252
 Re: which one has better airflow?
On a flow bench if you compare a Single pipe with 2 pipes of the same cross sectional area to the single pipe , the Single Pipe will always flow more air.

If your looking for a twin throttle body up grade . Might be worth looking at a Holden Camira throttle body .

Poster Thread
1200rallycar
Posted: 2008/1/5 3:44  Updated: 2008/1/5 3:44
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Joined: 2002/3/20
From: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8221
 Re: which one has better airflow?
i run a JE camira throttle body, its single butterfly, maybe the earlier is a twin?