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Main : Members : who_your_datty_1200 What's this sitting in my engine bay???

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What's this sitting in my engine bay???
What's this sitting in my engine bay???Popular
Submitterwho_your_datty_1200More Photos from who_your_datty_1200   Last Update2005/4/18 11:50    Tell a friendTell a friend
Hits4474  Comments20    0.00 (0 votes)0.00 (0 votes)
Be nice

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Poster Thread
Dodgeman
Posted: 2005/4/18 13:44  Updated: 2005/4/18 13:44
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2003/6/27
From: Southern Tablelands N.S.W. Australia
Posts: 8287
 Re: What
Hyundai, from about mid 90's

The Boss at my local service station has a 1200 racer with a cam so hairy that it was VERY difficult to start & to make idle at anything under 1000 rpm. He ditched the Webbers & went for direct port EFI [home built] Now it starts easily & idles much more smoothly than you could believe for an engine with that much cam. The carbs ran well at full power, but the EFI just offers more.
EFI, like it or not, it's the future.

Poster Thread
L18_B110
Posted: 2005/4/19 0:24  Updated: 2005/4/19 0:24
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/8/6
From: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 3792
 Re: What
yep, efi is great for people who can't tune webers! My L18 ran about 310 deg duration and just shy of .600" lift. started first time every time (even on cold winter mornings at Warwick) and idled strongly at 1000rpm.

single throttle body injection setups like these will never match twin sidedraughts for peak power. and quad throttle injection is far more expensive than webbers for dubvious benefit on a race car at WOT.

I crewed on 2 subarus in a rally on the weekend. one of their wonderful EFI systems was playing up, and even when I called in the experts, they said "there's nothing we can do until we get it on the dyno". isn't efi wonderful! not many dynos handy out in the forest! And all but one of the EFI awd cars got beaten by an old Datto 1600 running twin webers...

Poster Thread
B120dat
Posted: 2005/4/19 2:17  Updated: 2005/4/19 2:17
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/12/2
From: Brisbane
Posts: 2317
 Re: What
Great words there .....music to the ears

I have always said I would only use EFI on aseries with a turbo, then it has plenty of advantages..

Also the sound of the webbers is awsome bonus too, love it

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/19 7:52  Updated: 2005/4/19 7:52
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
Next year it will have a turbo off an E15ET. Yes I know they are small and I want something thats going to spool up early and this is only a small A14, so it should work out nicely.

So thats why I got the EFI and this is cheaper that doing a CA/SR swap. Yes I know not as much grunt, but with the turbo on there it should get a CA/SR off the line(I hope).

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/4/19 9:13  Updated: 2005/4/19 9:13
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/9/23
From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: What
Quote:
L18_B110 wrote:
yep, efi is great for people who can't tune webers!

But I guess it can go both ways when you look at your weekends experiences.
When it comes to costs I would have to argee.
So what was happening with the subaru? and have you heard what the cause was yet?
Would be interesting to see how you would go about finding and rectifying similar symptoms on a webbered engine.

Poster Thread
pro-240c
Posted: 2005/4/19 10:38  Updated: 2005/4/19 10:38
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/3
From: WA
Posts: 957
 Re: What
hey phunk - after seeing what you had done with the hyundai EFI manifold i've been keeping my eyes out for one ever since.

guess what i found in a bin outside a workshop i frequent...? that's right, a hyundai EFI manifold. had two stripped captive threads where the top half bolts to the bottom half and that was it! so i picked it up and am playing with the idea for our supercharged A14.

what injectors do you run?

and who's_your_datty - don't worry about CA18 - SR20 powered dattos. they've spent a motza getting that kinda grunt (and weight) so really, you're keeping the datto spirit alive.

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/19 12:09  Updated: 2005/4/19 12:09
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
I'm not worried about them, just want to show them up and do the usual shiit stiring.........

Quote:
you're keeping the datto spirit alive.


Well we will see about that in the future........

Poster Thread
LAGWAGON
Posted: 2005/4/19 14:01  Updated: 2005/4/19 14:01
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/4/15
From: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 1664
 Re: What
you can stir all you like, us modern boys know the joys of the CA. my 800kg datsun now weighs 950kg and only has 170rwkw to push its heavy ass along - with hopefully more to come...

we all love a little stir

i do love a good a series injection tho, i'm mucking around with one myself

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/4/19 14:21  Updated: 2005/4/19 14:21
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/9/23
From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: What
more weight = more gas flow = earlier spool up = win win.
Tried and tested in a turbo a15 120y wagon loaded up for a holiday trip.

Pro240c in the pic its just the 1.5 hyundai injectors. I do have some VL injectors that I am planing to run in the 1000 on the modified webber manifold I made. But I havent as yet looked into what injectors suit this hyundai manifold. So I will probly start it on these ones and go from there.

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/20 8:33  Updated: 2005/4/20 8:33
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
Quote:
more weight = more gas flow = earlier spool up = win win.


What are you saying Steve?? As I know stuff all about turbo's. The little E15 turbo would suit the A14 better than a big one, right?

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/4/20 8:54  Updated: 2005/4/20 8:54
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/9/23
From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: What
I am saying, if you take a turbo car weighing 800kgs and add more weight to it - it will place more load on the engine, with this creating more exhaust gases at a lower speed and therefore the turbo will spool up earlier.
Same reason why turbo cars are good for towing.

I am not saying a 1200 with ca18det weighing 1100kgs will be quicker than a 1200 ca18det weighing 800kgs.
I am just saying in my experiences a turbo 120y went better when loaded up with camping gear etc.
( It all comes down to turbo sizing too. Possibly the turbo on the 120y was a little to big)

I dont see a reason why your chosen turbo wont perform good. Its off an engine a little bigger but not much. I am no brain surgeon though but I think it will go alright and create boost at a reasonable rpm.

Poster Thread
pro-240c
Posted: 2005/4/20 10:18  Updated: 2005/4/20 10:18
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/3
From: WA
Posts: 957
 Re: What
from memory the E15 had a bush bearing T2 - which was the perfect size for a worked 1275 (out to 1320cc) mini engine one of my good friends used to own.

if you already have it, then use larger diameter pipes for the exhaust manifold and a very large dump pipe (like MIN 3.5in) with seperate wastegate dump and the flow should be there to redline.

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/20 12:20  Updated: 2005/4/20 12:20
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
I understand where you are coming from now Steve.

pro-240c Why so big on the exhaust??

Poster Thread
pro-240c
Posted: 2005/4/21 5:53  Updated: 2005/4/21 5:53
Home away from home
Joined: 2004/3/3
From: WA
Posts: 957
 Re: What
nah not the whole exhaust - just the dump pipe. you want maximium room for exhaust expansion after choking it thru such a small exhaust turbine and wastegate. this will help minimise overboosting and improve flow to help spool up time (not that it will be a prob with a T2!)

you'll want to use steampipe for your manifold, and make it equal to or slightly bigger than your ports to help improve flow - effectively reversing what you would do if you fitted a turbo too large for your application.

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/21 12:07  Updated: 2005/4/21 12:07
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
Well I got the to look at the turbo today and its stuffed. I am happy I didnt front up any dosh before hand.

Thanks pro-240c for advice on set up.

Poster Thread
dattoman_1000
Posted: 2005/4/20 12:22  Updated: 2005/4/20 12:22
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/8/11
From: Perth
Posts: 2668
 Re: What
Just to hijack the thread

What particular Hyundai engine are these manifolds off ?. There were at least 3 excel engines

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/20 15:16  Updated: 2005/4/20 15:16
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
94 Hyundai Excel EFI manifold and to find out more see steve's efi manifold

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/4/21 11:58  Updated: 2005/4/21 11:58
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/9/23
From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: What
Yeah Dattoman 94 excel but from memory there is 2 different manifolds and neither can be used on the hyundai in the others place.
I dont know if the port spacing on each manifold is the same but I do know one has the distributor mount as part of the manifolds mounting face. If you look at the link below, look at the pic and the second pic in the second row shows the distributor mounting - its the round port on the right of the pic. Obviously this is the one I know the port spacing is very close.

Poster Thread
1200coupe
Posted: 2006/7/14 14:35  Updated: 2006/7/14 14:35
Home away from home
Joined: 2003/9/17
From: Canberra
Posts: 512
 Re: What
Sorry for the hijack....

Quote:
single throttle body injection setups like these will never match twin sidedraughts for peak power. and quad throttle injection is far more expensive than webbers for dubvious benefit on a race car at WOT.

This may be true but to be fair, its usually the "driveability" of a good Efi build that can offer advantages. I have found this to be the case with rallying after driving both induction systems because a lot of time can be made whilst not at WOT. So it does have its advantages.
Unfortunately your Subaru crew experience does not sound like a good one. I have been working on PBMS Subies for many years and if your expert had a laptop all he had to do is plug it into the ecu and switch on the ignition and he could have used the software to tell him exactly what the problem was with the injected Subies. This skill, once learnt, can be quicker and easier than striping webers and searching for problems.
Once EFi is dynoed for WOT it should be taken out on the road, again with a laptop, but this time with a hot wire Lambda probe fitted, so it can be more accurately mapped on the road under real time load - throttle pumps etc etc. This technique is rarely used but can make a huge difference to performance and response at all rpm.
There is a place for both EFi and webers, and its a testament to webers that they are still popular even after technological developments have tried to replace them but they both have a place.

Poster Thread
short-coupe
Posted: 2006/7/14 15:44  Updated: 2006/7/14 15:44
Home away from home
Joined: 2006/5/30
From: Brisbane
Posts: 810
 Re: What
yes there is it's called fuel surge, fuel consumption,
no match, 1.5L OHV engine to a 1.8L 16V Twin OHC motor, factory crank fire ignition, EFI etc, even with the extra weight, sorry for the offence
i had webers on my old L series, these days efi is affordable and off cam torque is great. efi is even better for turochared cars

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/4/18 12:54  Updated: 2005/4/18 12:54
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/9/23
From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: What
Its good to see you finally got the guhungas to strip the wires back and trace them.
My wagon will be coping this ( below ) shortly.

Poster Thread
LAGWAGON
Posted: 2005/4/18 13:19  Updated: 2005/4/18 13:19
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/4/15
From: Melbourne Vic
Posts: 1664
 Re: What
hey phunnkdoc, whats that??? is that actually a fit or do you need to do some work to it yet? i'm also playing around with a custom inlet for an a series at the moment. CA18 plenum and some falcon runners. still a while to go yet

Poster Thread
phunkdoktaspok
Posted: 2005/4/18 13:48  Updated: 2005/4/18 13:48
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2002/9/23
From:
Posts: 2809
 Re: What

Poster Thread
who_your_datty_1200
Posted: 2005/4/18 13:55  Updated: 2005/4/18 13:55
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
Joined: 2004/2/26
From:
Posts: 1440
 Re: What
Guhungas........ LOL nice word!!!