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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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It's probably too late, but if you ever do end up immersed in a carburetor addiction please try out the DCOE equivalents from other manufacturers. The Dellorto DHLA is in my opinion
a very worthwhile option as it seems to have the all of the best features from the weber and Mikuni range.

I have found Mikuni's to be a great carb too.

I'm about to run some 35mm DHLB which are a tiny version of the DHLA (but with exactly the same (choked) bore size) They have a closer bore spacing which one could argue is better flowing (into the ports).

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:08
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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There was also a book by des hamill that wasn't bad if I recall (I had it at one stage but gave it to a bloke that got a dellorto off me for his mini).

What I would say is this though - whilst there is no doubt that if you are going to run carbs, then the webers are without equal - it's not necessarily the best choice here.

Webers will not (usually) make the same peak hp as a large plenum single carb setup (though to be fair I don't know of any off the shelf intakes that would actually truly fit into that category, so this is a theoretical discussion). But what the _do_ do is have the widest powerband (it'll 'come up on' the cam - even on a wild cam, a fair few hundred rpm sooner than a large single carb setup, and tend to 'hold on' longer in each gear) - so whilst it is very very marginally down on peak power, it has far better throttle response, and wider powerband, and on any racetrack, with the possible exception of something like Bathurst, with huge long straights, the webers are just unmatchable by any other carb setup.

That's where it stands for racing. But I would strongly remind that for a streeter, you aren't 'tied down' by regulations, or capacity limits, nor do you have an unlimited budget. And that's where the webers start to have some issues. Namely this - a highly developed webered a12 (factoring in the costs of proper carb optimisation, either on a dyno, or with 'mobile' exhaust gas analyser - and the latter has the advantage that you see what it does on the road, with air being shunted in through the radiator etc, which isn't quite the same - close but not quite - as on a dyno even with a big fan at the front) - anyway that highly developed a12 will still get snotted by a relatively more modestly modified a15, with good but not 'ultimate' carburettion (perhaps a set of twin SUs for example). The a15 won't have to rev as hard to make the same horsepower, and will have far more mid range torque, and will 'work' with a more street friendly diff ratio that doesn't have it screaming just doing runs here and there on a highway. WIth the same cam (and you wouldn't necessarily have to run the same cam) the a12 will have a much worse idle, and low rpm output. THe larger motors really 'tame' the cam and make it far more streetable.

As a very rough guideline - if you made 110bhp with an a12 (and 110 is just a random number, I could have said 100, or whatever) and it made that 110 at 7000rpm (which would probably tie in with you shifting gears at around 7600-7900 or thereabouts) - well with the same general buildup of an a15, it'd make that 110bhp at around 5500rpm, and be upshifting at 6000-6200 roughly.

That's a hell of a difference in rpm and that translates into longer engine life (though admittedly, if they were at the same rpms, the a12 will outlive an a15). And as mentioned, if the a12 made that 110bhp, it'd probably make about 120 ftlbs of torque (at some other rpm) and the a15 would likely make 150 or so ft lbs of torque.

I guess what I'm saying is that I have massive respect for webers, but if I was in your shoes, I'd much prefer spending the money on an a15 based combo, with less exotic carbs, for a better overall result.

Of course if price isn't a big deal, you could just as easily run a good set of webers on a highly modified a15, and that'd be one hell of a weapon.

On exhaust gas analysers - I don't own one, but if I was going to get one - my pick would be (partly based on locatin) the tech edge WBO2 gear http://wbo2.com/ - reasonable enough price, good track record, the ability to log (either in real time, or to later download to a laptop or whatever) and they also take other inputs for the logging, so you can log it with rpm, and (iirc) there's a couple of spares, so you could log manifold vac or throttle position or whatever). There is freeware available to view/compare logs/charts - so not a bad option at all. That's not to say there aren't other products out there just as good, but I know of a hell of a lot of people with tech edge gear, and all happy with it.

There's also one by innovate - I think US based, but don't quote me on that. Whilst I haven't used their product, I do recall they had user forums, and some of the best carb related setup info is there, or was, last I looked, a few years back,. They were one of the few places that delved into emulsion tube setup, both for webers and for big single carb stuff like Holleys (where the 'tube' is actually built into the metering block) and the differences between them and why they behave so differently (the short reason is because webers see one individual cylinder pulsed intake flow, whereas the holleys see a more 'smoothed out' constant flow drawing from all cylinders with sizeable overlap of each pulse.

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:09
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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Make sure if you are buying a Dellorto/s that it is either DHLA##, DHLA##C or DHLA##E, any other letters are emissions-type carbs, = gay.

And if you buy an AFR guage get a digital one so you can read it straight away instead of squinting at a needle trying to read it while you mount the footpath, mowing down pedestrians lol

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:37
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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thank you very much for info jmac.thanks for link to the WBO2 gear.i will research this gas analysers.atleast this particular one is in OZ.Im using a12 as it came originally with vehicle and hoping to see track someday in future under 1300cc class thus choice of dcoe webers.Im a big fan of the TS spec sunnys in japan and love the a12 "revvyness".Otherwise i do agree the a15 would have better torque and hp and a cheaper way to extract power from as compared to a12.
As for engine life,how long would a 110bhp 7600rpm a12 engine last and what would need to be rebuilt when the times come?
I will for also look for the book by des hamil mate.
Im astonished by what one can learn by asking infor from helpful forum members.

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:39
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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i'll be going with weber dcoes racer 135.cheers for tip mate.Just out of curiosity, are there any emission laws forbidding certain types of webers,mikunis,dellortos etc?

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:43
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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I also love the Tsukuba B110's

I'm not sure about the laws in your area but because 1200's never really had anything in the way of emissions equipment when they were built, the answer is no, you dont need to meet any emissions requirements (except for noise emissions)

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:44
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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and point taken about the digital AFR gauges.
as for the TS spec engines,they claim 170bhp from their a12s bored to 1300cc.Problem is ive never seen a dyno sheet or vid to support this although japanese tuners are very reputable...any NA a12,14,a15 pushing this type of hp on this forum?
i do acknowledge the jap ts spec b110 have alot of money invested on whole car.

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:52
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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any links to reputable weber tuners in vic?
cheers

Posted on: 2011/11/21 9:56
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
No life (a.k.a. DattoMaster)
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You might have trouble with your PCV system especially if you vent to atmosphere. That's easy to get round though a catch can and pluming back into intake should be ok.

Some states get picky about exposed air-filter elements, but air-boxes can look pretty tough too.

I had a good run, I even ran gauze on a few rainy days and got pulled over but they didn't say anything about noise ('routine check'). They can get very loud, at about 4500rpm I would say the induction noise was louder than the exhaust. The sound truly is exhilarating.

Seeing as your coupe is pretty tidy I would say you would have no issue as many routine checks are exactly that; a routine check of a very appealing car- they want a closer look.

Posted on: 2011/11/21 10:00
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Re: How to Choose and Tune Weber Carurettors : Basic Understanding
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Quote:

a12grunt wrote:

as for the TS spec engines,they claim 170bhp from their a12s bored to 1300cc.Problem is ive never seen a dyno sheet or vid to support this although japanese tuners are very reputable...any NA a12,14,a15 pushing this type of hp on this forum?
i do acknowledge the jap ts spec b110 have alot of money invested on whole car.


yes they have many hours of work and research and development put into them. The HP figure is in BHP, which is Brake Horse Power, which is a fancy pants name for flywheel horsepower.

Parasitic drag from the gearbox and diff etc etc, I think a common figure for that I have seen is about 25-30hp so take that away from the 175 and they are closer to 140-150hp at the wheels

Posted on: 2011/11/21 10:15
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