User Login    
 + Register
  • Main navigation
Login
Username:

Password:


Lost Password?

Register now!
Fast Search
Slow Search
Google Ad


[Datsun 1200 encyclopedia]

Propane

(Difference between revisions)

Datsun 1200 encyclopedia | Recent changes | Edit this page | Page history | Switch to MediaWiki mode

Printable version | Disclaimers | Privacy policy | Current revision
Categories: Engine Modifications | Fuel System

Revision as of 09:30, 4 January 2012
ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)

<- Previous diff
Current revision
ddgonzal (Talk | contribs)

Line 1: Line 1:
-[[Category:Engine Modifications]]+Datsun 1200 can run on propane. Datsun had a factory 510 with propane sold in Japan. Although propane contains less energy (so you will take a hit in power), it burns clean, can take high compression and can be less expensive. There are lots of propane Datsun out there -- any gas engine will run on propane. A mixture of propane and butane used mainly as vehicle fuel is commonly known as liquefied petroleum gas ('''LPG'''), known as '''gas''' in Australia (as opposed to petrol/gasoline).
-[[Category:Fuel System]] +
- +
-Datsun 1200 can run on propane. Datsun had a factory 510 with propane sold in Japan. Although propane contains less energy (so you will take a hit in power), it burns clean, can take high compression and can be less expensive. There are lots of propane Datsun out there -- any gas engine will run on propane. A mixture of propane and butane used mainly as vehicle fuel is commonly known as liquefied petroleum gas ('''LPG'''). +
= Carburetor = = Carburetor =
Datsun J15 LPG carburetor Datsun J15 LPG carburetor
-<br>[http://www.helmarparts.com/v/vspfiles/photos/CA100-124-2-2.jpg http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=140&uri=http://www.helmarparts.com/v/vspfiles/photos/CA100-124-2-2.jpg]+<br>{{ExtPhoto|http://www.helmarparts.com/v/vspfiles/photos|CA100-124-2-2.jpg}}
- +
revhead001's L-series Datsun engine IMPCO 125 mixer with a IMPCO J convertor. revhead001's L-series Datsun engine IMPCO 125 mixer with a IMPCO J convertor.
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=15838 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/15838.jpg]+<br>{{Album|15838}}
-<blockquote><hr>I used an origional nikki base and made an adaptor to fit the mixer. The J convertor is just a 1/2 version of the daddy model. Like a B2. Although it is a basic setup it chews around 18 litres to 100km approx [13 mpg]. Still beats the price of petrol.<hr></blockquote> +<blockquote>I used an origional nikki base and made an adaptor to fit the mixer. The J convertor is just a 1/2 version of the daddy model. Like a B2. Although it is a basic setup it chews around 18 litres to 100km approx [13 mpg]. Still beats the price of petrol.</blockquote>
- +
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=2365 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/2365.jpg]+
 +{{Album|2365}}
== Twin Sidedraughts == == Twin Sidedraughts ==
Twin Hitachi manifold with LPG mixers Twin Hitachi manifold with LPG mixers
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=21203 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/21203.jpg]+<br>{{Album|21203}} {{Album|15552}}
- +
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=15552 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/15552.jpg]+
- +
= Fuel Tank = = Fuel Tank =
1200 ute has plenty of room for a 492 kiloton tank 1200 ute has plenty of room for a 492 kiloton tank
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=492 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/492.jpg]+<br>{{Album|492}}
Fit in a sedan where the petrol tank goes, as in this Datsun 1000 74-litre tank: Fit in a sedan where the petrol tank goes, as in this Datsun 1000 74-litre tank:
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=19644 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/19644.jpg]+<br>{{Album|19644}}
61 litre tank gives 48.8 litre of useable LPG in this 1200 61 litre tank gives 48.8 litre of useable LPG in this 1200
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=16056 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/16056.jpg]+<br>{{Album|16056}}
Datsun B210 sedan Datsun B210 sedan
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=15840 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/15840.jpg]+<br>{{Album|15840}}
Custom setup using the origional filler neck to adapt the LPG filler Custom setup using the origional filler neck to adapt the LPG filler
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=15839 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/15839.jpg]+<br>{{Album|15839}}
= Miscellaneous = = Miscellaneous =
Optional Switch from petrol to LPG Optional Switch from petrol to LPG
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=495 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/495.jpg]+<br>{{Album|495}}
Cutoff with filter Cutoff with filter
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=498 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/498.jpg]+<br>{{Album|498}}
= Considerations = = Considerations =
At times LPG is half the price of gasoline, so simple converstion are still cost effective. Even though the fuel usage increases. At times LPG is half the price of gasoline, so simple converstion are still cost effective. Even though the fuel usage increases.
- 
LPG is a great option for a turbo setup but it doesn't have much to do with higher octane. You will find that with the blended propane / butane blend that is pretty much everywhere for the last 10 years is regulated in Australia to a industry standard to a minimum of 94 octane rating. It is mainly due to the fact that although propane on it's own has a rating of over 100 octane it has less energy per burn cycle than being blended with butane (which has a lower octane-rating). LPG is a great option for a turbo setup but it doesn't have much to do with higher octane. You will find that with the blended propane / butane blend that is pretty much everywhere for the last 10 years is regulated in Australia to a industry standard to a minimum of 94 octane rating. It is mainly due to the fact that although propane on it's own has a rating of over 100 octane it has less energy per burn cycle than being blended with butane (which has a lower octane-rating).
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=16527 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/16527.jpg]+{{Album|16527}}
Datsun 1000 has run in the mid to high 8's and getting faster all the time. Runs on LPG. Datsun 1000 has run in the mid to high 8's and getting faster all the time. Runs on LPG.
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=959 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/959.jpg]+<br>{{Album|959}}
- +
== Efficiency == == Efficiency ==
- 
Sikyne: used two of those throttle plates, ca125 mixers, twin SU manifold on a L series. Sikyne: used two of those throttle plates, ca125 mixers, twin SU manifold on a L series.
It was very difficult to get mixtures lean enough, had to run extra idle mixture shims(fitted in the air valve). It was very difficult to get mixtures lean enough, had to run extra idle mixture shims(fitted in the air valve).
Line 72: Line 61:
It gets 13 mpg street and 30 highway on propane, still being tuned... It gets 13 mpg street and 30 highway on propane, still being tuned...
- 
LPG powered A15 LPG powered A15
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=22879 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/22879.jpg]+<br>{{Album|22879}}
Bottom left: propane vaporizer Bottom left: propane vaporizer
Line 86: Line 74:
= FAZPIOES = = FAZPIOES =
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=50516 LPG EASY CONVERSION]+ Discussion: [{{Post|359994}} LPG EASY CONVERSION]
* LPG valve 1 : open/cut LPG coming from Tank to Vaporiser * LPG valve 1 : open/cut LPG coming from Tank to Vaporiser
Line 95: Line 83:
STOCK CARBY & STOCK AIR FILTER BOX STOCK CARBY & STOCK AIR FILTER BOX
 +<br>{{UploadPost|3647_4d7ea55aed1bf.jpg|359994}} {{UploadPost|3647_4d7ea569a0fc6.jpg|359994}} {{UploadPost|3647_4d7ea578106ba.jpg|359994}} {{UploadPost|3647_4d7ea586aa366.jpg|359994}}
-[http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/3647_4d7ea55aed1bf.jpg http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/3647_4d7ea55aed1bf.jpg]+= unfamilia =
 + See: [{{Post|310769}} Build thread]
-[http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb//3647_4d7ea569a0fc6.jpg http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/3647_4d7ea569a0fc6.jpg]+LPG L16 in 1200
 +<br>{{UploadPost|277_4bd6bf9d0f524.jpg|314013}}
-[http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/3647_4d7ea578106ba.jpg http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb//3647_4d7ea578106ba.jpg]+= bent_axel_bob =
- +Club member [http://datsun1200.com/userinfo.php?uid=218 bent_axel_bob] did this conversion:
-[http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/3647_4d7ea586aa366.jpg http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/newbb/3647_4d7ea586aa366.jpg]+<br>{{Album|480}} {{Album|481}} {{Album|482}} {{Album|483}} {{Album|484}} {{Album|485}} {{Album|486}} {{Album|487}} {{Album|488}} {{Album|489}} {{Album|490}} {{Album|491}} {{Album|492}} {{Album|493}} {{Album|494}} {{Album|495}} {{Album|496}} {{Album|497}} {{Album|498}} {{Album|499}} {{Album|595|JPG}} {{Album|596}}
= Fuel Injection = = Fuel Injection =
Line 109: Line 100:
As of 2010 in the US is the propane is too dirty for liquid injection. Leaves nasty tar, propylene, and sulfur deposits in the system. As of 2010 in the US is the propane is too dirty for liquid injection. Leaves nasty tar, propylene, and sulfur deposits in the system.
- +{{Album|12250}}
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=12250 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/12250.jpg]+
- +
= Turbo = = Turbo =
Line 117: Line 106:
GRA throttle body and B2 convertor with T3 turbo on A14 GRA throttle body and B2 convertor with T3 turbo on A14
-<br>[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=19609 http://ddgonzal.members.winisp.net/getThumb.aspx?width=400&uri=http://datsun1200.com/uploads/photos/19609.jpg]+<br>{{Album|19609}}
- +
-[http://datsun1200.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=8268 http://datsun1200.com/uploads/thumbs/8268.jpg]+
 +{{Album|8268}}
= Air/Fuel Ratio = = Air/Fuel Ratio =
You can run an O2 sensor just like for gasoline powered engines. You can run an O2 sensor just like for gasoline powered engines.
-Stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1. Propane is 15.7:1. It is more dangerous to run a propane engine rich than lean (more likely to detonate -- the opposite of gasoline.+Stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1. Propane is 15.7:1. It is more dangerous to run a propane engine rich than lean (more likely to detonate -- the opposite of gasoline).
 + 
 += Photo Index =
 +{{Indexi!}}<div class="index_body"> >{{Thumbi|959}} {{Thumbi|1489}} {{Thumbi|2365}} {{Thumbi|8268}} {{Thumbi|8295}} {{Thumbi|12250}} {{Thumbi|12251}} {{Thumbi|15552}} {{Thumbi|15838}} {{Thumbi|15839}} {{Thumbi|15840}} {{Thumbi|16056}} {{Thumbi|16527}} {{Thumbi|19609}} {{Thumbi|19644}} {{Thumbi|22879}}</div>
 + 
 +[[Category:Engine Modifications]]
 +[[Category:Fuel System]]{{End}}

Current revision

Datsun 1200 can run on propane. Datsun had a factory 510 with propane sold in Japan. Although propane contains less energy (so you will take a hit in power), it burns clean, can take high compression and can be less expensive. There are lots of propane Datsun out there -- any gas engine will run on propane. A mixture of propane and butane used mainly as vehicle fuel is commonly known as liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), known as gas in Australia (as opposed to petrol/gasoline).

Contents

Carburetor

Datsun J15 LPG carburetor
CA100-124-2-2.jpg

revhead001's L-series Datsun engine IMPCO 125 mixer with a IMPCO J convertor.
15838.jpgAlbum 15838

I used an origional nikki base and made an adaptor to fit the mixer. The J convertor is just a 1/2 version of the daddy model. Like a B2. Although it is a basic setup it chews around 18 litres to 100km approx [13 mpg]. Still beats the price of petrol.

2365.jpgAlbum 2365

Twin Sidedraughts

Twin Hitachi manifold with LPG mixers
21203.jpgAlbum 21203 15552.jpgAlbum 15552

Fuel Tank

1200 ute has plenty of room for a 492 kiloton tank
492.jpgAlbum 492

Fit in a sedan where the petrol tank goes, as in this Datsun 1000 74-litre tank:
19644.jpgAlbum 19644

61 litre tank gives 48.8 litre of useable LPG in this 1200
16056.jpgAlbum 16056

Datsun B210 sedan
15840.jpgAlbum 15840

Custom setup using the origional filler neck to adapt the LPG filler
15839.jpgAlbum 15839

Miscellaneous

Optional Switch from petrol to LPG
495.jpgAlbum 495

Cutoff with filter
498.jpgAlbum 498

Considerations

At times LPG is half the price of gasoline, so simple converstion are still cost effective. Even though the fuel usage increases.

LPG is a great option for a turbo setup but it doesn't have much to do with higher octane. You will find that with the blended propane / butane blend that is pretty much everywhere for the last 10 years is regulated in Australia to a industry standard to a minimum of 94 octane rating. It is mainly due to the fact that although propane on it's own has a rating of over 100 octane it has less energy per burn cycle than being blended with butane (which has a lower octane-rating).

16527.jpgAlbum 16527

Datsun 1000 has run in the mid to high 8's and getting faster all the time. Runs on LPG.
959.jpgAlbum 959

Efficiency

Sikyne: used two of those throttle plates, ca125 mixers, twin SU manifold on a L series. It was very difficult to get mixtures lean enough, had to run extra idle mixture shims(fitted in the air valve). This set up even when properly dyno tuned was not as responsive, not as economical and only marginly more top end over a single CA 125 mixer...I also tested a CA 200 mixer but the 125 was better...But gas injection made another 20KW over a CA 125 mixer on my A series..

revhead001: Half the reason that your engine is so hard to tune is that the carbys are too big for the stockish motor to start with...You can't have power and economy with lpg. Trade one for the other. Unless you go turbo.

B210sleeper: I actually have too much carburettor, it's about 60mm with a GA16 throttle body,it needed a restrictor put in the intake to get it more vacuum signal...using omvl equipment, seemed more suited to cars than impco...i've struggled with fuel economy ... 18l 100km is about 15 mpg, thats' about as good as i've ever gotten in the city.i've had 30 mpg+ on the highway. i look at it as lpg is 1/2 the cost of petrol, so i'm getting 30 petrol mpg even at the worst ... 20 petrol mpg city and as good as 60 petrol mpg highway.... creative accounting? not any more than a hybrid...the short answer is a turbo... lpg likes 12.5:1 compression, economy should be much better then, if you can keep your foot out of it. debating just buying the turbo already and getting started...

B210sleeper

B210sleeper's Datsun B310 using a European setup from omvl in italy, it's a variable piston carb.

It gets 13 mpg street and 30 highway on propane, still being tuned...

LPG powered A15
22879.jpgAlbum 22879

Bottom left: propane vaporizer
Up diagonally: mixture solenoid
Up from that between cone filter: propane mixer
90 deg bend into GA16DE throttle body. 
Blue hose running all over, oil plumbing.

Using Autronic AL-600D lambda (O2) sensor system.

FAZPIOES

Discussion: POST LPG EASY CONVERSION
  • LPG valve 1 : open/cut LPG coming from Tank to Vaporiser
  • LPG valve 2 : open/cut Gasoline to Carby ( both valves can be manually operated )
  • A : MIXER with Little Holes around - Sits over stock carby & under Air Filter Box
  • TAP : to regulate Lpg Amount + or - at High RPM

( there is another little screw on LPG Vaporiser to regulate + or - at Idle )

STOCK CARBY & STOCK AIR FILTER BOX
3647_4d7ea55aed1bf.jpgPost 359994 3647_4d7ea569a0fc6.jpgPost 359994 3647_4d7ea578106ba.jpgPost 359994 3647_4d7ea586aa366.jpgPost 359994

unfamilia

See: POST Build thread

LPG L16 in 1200
277_4bd6bf9d0f524.jpgPost 314013

bent_axel_bob

Club member bent_axel_bob did this conversion:
480.jpgAlbum 480 481.jpgAlbum 481 482.jpgAlbum 482 483.jpgAlbum 483 484.jpgAlbum 484 485.jpgAlbum 485 486.jpgAlbum 486 487.jpgAlbum 487 488.jpgAlbum 488 489.jpgAlbum 489 490.jpgAlbum 490 491.jpgAlbum 491 492.jpgAlbum 492 493.jpgAlbum 493 494.jpgAlbum 494 495.jpgAlbum 495 496.jpgAlbum 496 497.jpgAlbum 497 498.jpgAlbum 498 499.jpgAlbum 499 595.JPGAlbum 595 596.jpgAlbum 596

Fuel Injection

There are LPG direct injection kits, which are cool if you have a factory EFI already, or a Megasquirt, it would be fairly easy to change to injection.

As of 2010 in the US is the propane is too dirty for liquid injection. Leaves nasty tar, propylene, and sulfur deposits in the system.

12250.jpgAlbum 12250

Turbo

Turbo can be intercooled blowthrough, the vaporizer has a boost reference port, so it's easy. The expense is getting a turbo and making up an exhaust manifold or j pipe.

GRA throttle body and B2 convertor with T3 turbo on A14
19609.jpgAlbum 19609

8268.jpgAlbum 8268

Air/Fuel Ratio

You can run an O2 sensor just like for gasoline powered engines.

Stoichiometric ratio for gasoline is 14.7:1. Propane is 15.7:1. It is more dangerous to run a propane engine rich than lean (more likely to detonate -- the opposite of gasoline).

Photo Index

Click any thumbnail to see it full size in our Club Photo Album. Read details or post a comment!

>959.jpg 1489.jpg 2365.jpg 8268.jpg 8295.jpg 12250.jpg 12251.jpg 15552.jpg 15838.jpg 15839.jpg 15840.jpg 16056.jpg 16527.jpg 19609.jpg 19644.jpg 22879.jpg
 
¤