I'd recommend making one or buying one if you don't have access to a good tig welder.

If you don't care what it looks like, then just using a big fuel filter works good too.

I don't know of any factory ones. On Autospeed/some magazine (can't remember) they had an article using a Ford Laser pollution canister. You basically stuff it with stainless steel kitchen scourer.

Chris

Nissan never had any luck with the l series sunny 1200 excellent. the L series upset the balance with its weight. Just spoke to a speedway racer that uses the gti engine from a suzuki and its apparantely 60 to 70 kg almost 20-30 kgs lighter than an a-series and 60-70 lighter than l20b. The sunny ruled in all forms with the a-series. The l series found success in the 1600 where it was better balancer for its weight. The stanza (sunny with an l-series) was also a pig.
However to get an "a" to rock much moula is needed from your wallet.

Quote:
The L series Datsun Sunny Excellent Coupe (1973 : KPB110) won the '73 Japan GP (TS race).
The other pig L series Stanza was at the time the only car ever to win every round of the Australian Rally Championship! Pig of a thing...

looks like a pipercross filter

The filter element is Unifilter (custom made to my specs). I made the top and bottom aluminium plates to mount it as well as the heat shield under the carbs. No it isn't hard to fit the L20B provided you take your time and think about it BEFORE firing up the oxy or angle grinder and start cutting.
I have a doc that I've written outlining the install. How do I make it available in the tach section???

angrywabbit is that your coupe in the avatar???? it looks mean real mean??? where are you in the world?

is this the pic of the engine thats in it ?

Hey mate, Where can I find this doc??

Cheers
Ash

The old Tech Section article "What's the best engine to put into a 1200?" has moved to Engine Swaps.

what gearbox belhousing and clutch are you using....lacking a hydraulic clutch with an L series in a 1200 is very interesting

Cheers Allan

Well, back when the 1200 was made Nissan didn't have the L20B ... only the L16/L18.

Most of the people who say the L swap is difficult never actually tried it. A couple other ran into big problems. But others, like Dimlight say it is fairly easy if you do it certain ways. More info in the Tech Section article What's the best engine to put into a 1200?

Angrywabbit, use the "Contact Us" link on the homepage. The Webmaster will set you up to get your article in the Tech Section.

D, mate if you ever saw this thing go you'd be eating your words. It's awesome!

Nice pics Paul. Now just tell the guys how you made it such a weapon! I promise I won't copy! (yeah right) Are you going to MtCotton this weekend? My car's not ready yet so I won't have any practice before the QLD championships this year, but hopefully these changes will finally get me under 50 seconds!

This is a beautiful conversion fron this view and all credit to the owner, and I know it must go like the clappers but Im still to be convinced how it goes against the other guy in qld with the low times in that 1200 with the a14 you said went to slicks.
DD yes they only had the l16 and l18 but they also had the LZ head twin 16v nissan race heads which would eat a soch cam l20b. I still believe the l20 would destroy its handling in peak conditions but we'll have to see it go against the 1200 a14 who got the good times at the last race. Out of the le mans cars that won the in the 80s fuji enduro, 3 or 4 1200s and sunnys kept coming into the top 10 at the and they werent the lz engined 1200s just heavier sunnys and light 1200s with the "A".
The reason the caterham 460kg and latest lotus 695kg went for the K-series instead of cosworth 2ltr is for the measly 93 kg all up engine weight.

Since you mentioned clubmans, the A series engined Sports 1300's like the one 4 rows down, the green and yellow Leda with A series power, does mid 48s. Car 50 (2nd row down) is also an A series powered example and runs low 49's. You can also check out the results linked from that page. The Sports 1300's are all in the Sports Cars Up to 1600cc class. It's hard to imagine a full bodied A series 1200 or 1000 going faster than those things... What do you reckon they weigh?

Paul does low 47's but wasn't there that day. That should give you some idea how quick this little beast is!

I was there, but I broke the clutch pedal on the 2nd run, so I was about 8 tenths slower than normal...well, than my best time. The pedal was still just barely hanging on, but flexing around all over the place. I could pump it up just enough to get the clutch to slip so I could stay in 1st gear if I selected it rolling down the hill before the start, but after the start I was shifting with no clutch. that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

B120Dat - Yes that's my car and yes that's the engine. I'm in Brisbane.
All installation questions are answered in the doc that I've prepared.
Thanks for the complements. I think that you've heard enough from L18_B110 about the car to know that it handles very well. The extra weight doesn't affect the handling. In fact, it turns in better that my 1600 did with the same engine!

I'm not too worried about anyone copying Harry .... I'm here to share!

Those times are excellent and so are yours so please dont think that Im picking on your ability you deserve all the credit you can get. We are all proud of datto warriors it just that through history the Lz L-series didnt feature in fast lap times and they were 200+ horsepower full race sunnys also some time back almost 8 years ago at winton Ive witnessed a well setup L20b 1200 prepped by Datrally and it was outclassed by steve newings yet to be sorted 1200 a14. The L 1200 owner went back to the a-series and had better success against steve. This is when I got the datsun a-series bug. Can you tell me where I can find a map of this track in qld?
Also I dont know how much they weigh but it musnt be much for such scant looking things and id love to see one with an L20b engined one to see the difference :) However you rarely see an L series in clubmans beyond 1300 but you see rotary, 2tgs rather than heavy 18rg and other late engine tc engines. As for the races that Im referring to are in the history of a fantastic website
WSPR-RACING.COM
i wonder how many used the a series as compared to the LZ L series. I think youll be amazed at how many sunnys finished ahead of more powerful and able lola porsches in the top ten and ahead of many LZ TC 16v L series stanzas and 200bs. Yes these were heavier cars even the sunnys were too but how do we explain so many top ten finishes from the sunny???
Dattoman1000s car used a well sorted high power fj20 NA for the 2ltSS when owned by Mammi motors but they went back to the a-series as it weight had a big difference in lap times. They raced the sunny in rallying with the a-series and now have the L-series in a rally stanza which they say is better balanced for it. All I know is that heavy donks belong in heavy cars but its better to see an l engine in a 1200 than a cast iron v8.
I want to believe the L-series is a better engine for the 1200 or 1000 but I still need more convincing since they were never successful in under 2ltrSS cars. As for steve newings a14 1200 it ruled much bigger engined sr20, 4ag, l20b, 3sg 1200s, 1600s, corollas, stanzas, minis, geminis and other casualties. Can this wabbit and your L1200 Harry change all this?

can ya post some pics of your car pls... it looks aswome the MEAN effect is diffentaly there

is there any pics of it on the web somewhere?

Still cant get over how clean that engine bay is what diff is it running and rear suspension?

DD, thanks for giving me credit, but I have never done an L-series 1200. I have done two, well one and a half as I'm still working on the second, NAPS-Z conversions though. I went with that because a) I had one and b) the measurements I took appeared to indicate an L-series would be too tall. Um, I forgot where I was going with this, so I'll shut up now.

Just being told what I should have known!
Hillclimbs do make exceptions for heavy engined small monsters. On the uphill, torque will rule while handling and braking is improved thanks to Mr gravity.
Thats why those straight 1930s 8 cylinder bugattis when up that mountain at Dromana so quickly at the last arthurs seat Hillclimb and big cube supercharged open wheelers keep winning australian hillclimb championships.

Quote:You're referring to Gumley no doubt - a big cube VW engine isn't exactly 'big cube' in the scheme of things.

Nice theory, but MtCotton has as much downhill as uphill, and the big braking areas are on steep downhill grades with a very tight hairpin at the bottom - not exactly great for lead-tipped arrows. The two loops which are basically 180 degree corners at the top of each hill also play a huge part in good times out there. And remember the fastest an A series car has ever gone there is 50.05.

OK then, how about the nice flat Morgan Park old circuit? 8 corners including 2 hairpins in just 1.1kms. It is reknowned as a handling track. The fastest A series I know - Malcolm and Craig Allen's 1200 coupe is three quarters of a second per lap faster than me on our best times. The other quick A series car out there you referred to is Derek and Brendan Pingel's. When they're on slicks he is 4 tenths quicker than me on DOT tyres. On DOT race tyres I'm a second quicker. Both those cars have more highly developed suspensions with adjustable shocks etc. Allen's 1200 use the same front brakes, except they use race pads and I use Bendix. They use discs on the rear and I use drums with std linings. I'm not bragging, just giving real world examples. Not many people could afford to build engines like those Jap Sunny race cars. For cost effectiveness, the L series is a pretty good option. It's a cheap swap, plenty of good go-fast parts around the place 2nd hand, and plenty of knowledge out there on how to make them go. And it doesn't cost much to get good power out of them.

What you don't factor in when you think about weight distribution is the boxes and diffs. While a L18 is about 25% heavier than an A14, the gearbox is about 100% heavier (and it's further rearward). The diff I use is probably 80% heavier than the standard item. I'd be surprised if the weight distribution is adversly affacted due to the L series swap.

ever heard of Murray Coote? He had a pretty good L18 1200 coupe rally car back in Grp G days that used to beat the rotary engined Dazdas and everything else. What about George Fury's L series 120Y? Feral would also be worth asking with his L powered Sunny. I'm sure he knows those other cars I've just mentioned too.

What L18_B110 said!!!
We aren't trying to convince anyone of the best engine swap. I think that it is important to remember that the car must be assembled as a package and if any conversion (Engine/box/diff/brakes) is done with little or no thought to the effect on other components, it will be a disaster.
All systems that make a quick car must work together and be built that way.

They are very good examples and a great achievement for these heavier but well balanced 1200s.
But Brendan Pingels sunny is an a12 isnt it? I heard he won the 1300 and under touring class in it and I just sent my 1200 ute diff to him for his road car.
What kind of brakes does wabbits run to get those small diameter tyres on????
Id like to keep the 13s especially the 13 x 7 and 13 x 8s ive found.
I agree the L is a cheaper and better choice for Hp you are right on there I would never argue there again Im just pro "A".
Its a shame that unless we flare the sunny it would be hard to get the side to side track balance needed for this heavier and more powerful upgrade.
However the other examples like Coote and Fury they are just gifted drivers that could beat almost anyone with less. Rotaries never made good rallye cars but rule the 3 ltr and under throughout the world in circuit racing. They rotary retired the famous American Newman Datsun team from the 3ltr and under series since they were raced. Also most Dazdas like the L 1200 werent setup properly like you say. Im Almost convinced the L is a better deal and when I go to Japan this winter I will look out for the rare LZ heads and maybe Ill get lucky.
However i see the ca18 a better solution.

Brendan's 1200 coupe is 1420cc on every entry list I've seen. Is under 1300 some weird short circuit class? It's not an Improved Production class.

let me get this straight D, you want to keep the 13*7 and 8" wheels, but don't want to flare the gaurds??!!! is this for the 1000 in your avatar? (sunny is such a vague description)

I have been thinking of a non-turbo CA18, but I don't want to have to 'invent my own wheel' - not many people have messed around with those non-turbo engines. Tighe don't have any cam grinds, and sourcing hi-comp pistons could be pretty expensive. Plus the expense of the computer, efi pump, lines, and surge tank (1200 coupes suffer from fuel surge pretty badly), bigger throttle body, and dyno time for tuning. But I may have to resort to it one day to try and catch up with this angrywabbit!

I weighed a few things last night.
I've got NoPSI's A12 which we just rebuilt hanging from a block and tackle under the house so I lowered it onto some scales. The motor is dry, minus starter, water pump, and manifolds, and the flywheel has been lightened . It weighs 85kg.
So the 87 listed in the tech section seems a little on the light side for a complete engine. I'll weigh my L18 before I put it back in the car.

A 120Y 4spd with mount and crossmember is 19kg, no oil.

My old broken Stanza 5spd is 35kg with x-member, no oil. The stumpy Skyline 5spd I currently use (off getting some Z gears fitted) would weigh a few kg more more with its bigger shafts and bearings, and wider gears. The longer boxes would weigh more again with thier longer shafts and extra bearing (I think).

Go the non turbo CA18.!!
They're light without the turbo and associated paraphenalia, and incredibly strong.
I built a CA16 for circuit work, it was a bit of a development curve, but worth it in the end.
In a medium state of tune (cams, 45's, headwork, compression) it made 109kw @ rear wheels.
The CA18 would be a better bet, it has the same stroke and more bore, thus bigger inlet valves and nowhere near the shrouding.
I can post details for those who want a blow by blow

Yeah Tim, I'm very interested in more details - especially with that kind of power. I should be able to get an engine at the right price.

you ran carbs? or was that 45 throttle bodies? what did you do with the ignition?

I wasn't envisaging much headwork - just a bit of a clean up and port matching. Maybe tapering the guides if they are too intrusive. How extensive was the head work?

Ive got 13 x 6 at the moment and 14 x 6 for track work. I didnt mean to confuse anyone with the flaring bit. Ill try to explain in more detail: If you run heavy running gear on a narrow car like the 1200 especially 1000, flares are a definate calling to try and give it more track. My wide supelites 13x7 and 8s would only fit with big ass flares but I didnt want to resort to this for asthetics and originality. However in a 1000 the L series in not a possibility its much narrower than the 1200 and the 1000s antiquated suspension and lack of suitable geometry proves that.
As for the sunny, yes the L is good for non pollution but if going the way of a different engine I still believe there are other better options. This is my opinion of course like you and others have yours. However I believe that if you are going to change engines then better go a lightweight hi po powerplant such as the ca18 which although tighe dont have anything off the shelf Steve Newing among others 240RS have gotten more than ample oomph with their own cam specs. Steve will be able to supply a decent cam for a good price since hes an honest enthusiastic perfectionist dude. Hes stanza develops 230hp at the moment and hes not finished and still went out last round last year of the 2ltrss after been away for most of it and won all three races and missed out the vic title by a point. He went for the ca for its economy in initial purchase, simple design single chain and lightweight block (much lighter than an SR which is a sand cast sumo 4) an improved design that mimicks the abarth fiat engines of the 60s and in turbo form have been known to produce as much as the sr20 with similar investment. They never came with complex vtec or whatever nissan call their version and since many honkies throw them out for sr turbo conversions on their old sylvias. I cant wait for you to weigh your l18 and an l20b to see the difference. However in the states the heavy arrss windsor v8 conversion for a 240z has been known to 8 pounds. This goes to indicate that the L26 like its brother L20 have over engineered botom ends that outweigh the heads capabilities. I undestand the L20B has even more strengthening and is much heavier.
I would be good to find out how heavy the other parts of your running gear are and the overall weight of your beast. Its great to have you Harry doing so much to prove the best for our dattos you and Smac deserve a medal next to your avatar
P.S: Ordered the R169HD from Summa auto parts in Pascoe Vale, Vic for $112!!!!! Can wait now, I get it on Friday cause part of it is coming from sydney.

If you want to run an electronic disy on the CA's, I had a CA16 with webers that used a Magna dissy driving of the end of the exhaust cam in place of the crank angle sensor.
The Magna dissy has the required rotation direction

I believe the weights mentioned in the tech section are dry shipping weights for long motor no accessories.

1300 class was used even in 2 litre and under sports sedans but died due to lack of competitors.

Here goes!
The bottom end used stock crank and rods, with the usual balance, shotpeen etc...
Used the stock cast pistons, the CA16 ones are pop top. Machined valve cutouts in them. A little heavy but hey..
The CA16 sump was huge, and baffled, I left it alone.
The head was done by Tony Marsh, it was more than a tidyup, but he didnt weld it up. The valve guides were taken back flush with the roof of the port, and the roof was lifted. The spring seats were sunk about 3mm, and Crane springs were used. We hit daylight doing the springseats, so be carefull!
We planed it down to end up with 13:1 compression, 49cc chambers rings a bell. Had to push a sleeve over one of the idler bearings on the cam belt to get tension back.
Used a CA18 turbo headgasket.
The CA inlet manifold is 2 piece, I removed the outer bit then welded on flanges to mount 45 webers. A lot of grinding and welding was required.
Tony flowed the head, and whilst I cant remember the flow figures, he reckoned it was capable of around 220 horse at 10.5 lift. He was way impressed. Remember this is with the stock CA16 valves, not the big CA18 inlets.
This compares favourabley with the best 4AGE heads, and because the CA uses siamese inlets, the port velocities are way up on the 4AGE.
The cams were done by building up and straightening the stock ones, we ended up around 10.5 lift and 300 advertised duration. Modded the standard cam wheels to give them a bit of adjustment for setting up.
The CA's used hydraulic lifters, I ditched these and turned up shims to replace them. These end up about 10mm dia and 20 mm long, I wasted the middle of them and had them hardened. I then just ground them down to set up the valve clearance. I did something to restrict oil flow to the lifters I think it was a plug pushed in the top of the block with a tiny hole drilled in it.
Used the standard crangle sensor, Dual coils in wasted spark config, and I tweaked a stock s13 computer to put a basic timing curve in. I'd use a link ignition computer in this day and age!!
For the first month or so all this was just the worlds most expensive oil pump, I couldnt keep oil in the thing. Ran the bearings a couple of times.
Ended up with external drains from the back of the rocker covers to the sump, and a catch bottle with a huge drain back to the breather in the side of the block.
Adapted a Quaife Sierra SCCR 5 speed on the back.
With more dyno time and cam tweaking I reckon the thing would have made more power. You can only realistically expect 190hp outa 45 sidedraughts though. Sadly I totalled the 1200 coupe that all this was in (fell off the sweeper at Pukekohe at around 200k) and sold everything in disgust.
I've always wanted to do a CA18, I reckon the bigger valves and square bore/stroke would make for a demon little engine.

You are one mad kiwi.
Yes I forgot to mention the siamese ports not found in the 4ag 16v but in the bigger more powerful and only 14kg or so heavier the 3sg (rod millens 1000hp+ turbo pikes peak type engine) Imagine a smaller ca16 that can flow 220hp then imagine the ca18 possibilities with Newings 230hp at the moment...
It gets interesting though when twin 45s become restrictive for such a small cube engine.

Tsillay,
Thanks for that post. The exhaust ports need the most work on the CA16's I'm told.
For solid lifters you can use GTR ones.
The external drains are a good fix. The CA's do hold oil in the cam boxes same as the R32 GTR's.

What size chokes were you using in the 45's.

I think the CA is the most under-rated engine Nissan have in both N/A and turbo form.
The New QR20 ? 2 litre has gone back to cam on bucket I see! Damn fine to get rid of those horrible rocker arms on the SR's.

thanks feral. and tim - didn't see your post until now.

Harry,
My brother has a CA18 that he may be willing to sell if you want. He was going to put it into his 1000 years ago and it's been collecting dust ever since. It's a turbo without the turbo. No electronics or anything like that. Just the bare engine.

Thanks Paul, I'll have to think about it. That's a significant amount of work involved, so I'll keep weighing up the options:

1)A mate of mine had Stew Wilkins build a very similar L18 to mine, but with a bigger cam, Manley inlet valves, and a little more port work. On the same dyno I've used he got an extra 20bhp at the wheels.
2)Long rod (Z20) L20B bottom end.
3)turbo A12. wait and see how NoPSI's performs at MtCotton - maybe I can twist his arm to give me a drive...

Paul, do you mind if I ask what kind of power you're getting at the wheels?

Harry,
I haven't dyno'd it since rebuilding it in 2001, but prior to the rebuild it had 200bhp and the flywheel. Probably hasn't got any more now, just a bit more torque.

angrywabbit chuck some photos of ya car on the site pls

Today spoke to a tig welder who can rig one up from a honda one but hes known to rip people off. Maybe Ill just buy one from the speedway for sale forums, that is if I could ever get off this one.

Yes its a shame the ca is so underated and maybe who knows it better that it is for they are getting cheaper to buy.

Wabbit how bout those picks from your old site postings?

B120dat. Photos are up

My sunny/Lseries is an excellent handling vehicle (subjective I know.) At Sandown at a club day flaggies at the end of turn one were clapping every lap as it would get on two wheels
Murray Cootes 1200, Jamie Drummonds 120Y and plenty of others of same type were always good handlers on dirt or bitumen. This is why the L conversion is so popular as a cheap excellent power to weight motor sport alternative.

thats a nice air filter.