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I just noticed datto13b is a painter, if you dont listen to me, listen to him - I'm a hack but I still managed to produce this as well as the H1 ion my avatar...

it cost me around $1000 for me and my dad to do my ute, thats full 2pac inside, outside, tray and engine bay, in orig colour, putty primer, tub liner, all thinners, prepwash, sand paper ect.

i used wattle kill rust inside my R31 drift pig, yeah it looks clean and tidy, but its taken 6 months to get rid of the smell!!

the only thing that I recommend is the por15 black Coate and white coate
as a final finish the rest you need to research for the best base finish.
Preparation is where all the work is.

I just finished mine with rattle cans on the outside. Can't say much for longevity (thats not what i'm after anyway), but it cost $400ish, that was all materials and cans. I used a lot of cans, much much more than I thought I would. Takes some time to set it all up, and at the end of the day I wish I bought a el cheapo compressor and paint, much easier coverage I reckon, my finish is patchy. If you go with rattle cans, make sure its a hot day, the hotter the better. My best finish was on hot metal. Mind you matte black is a bit unpredictable but thats what I found out. I didn't really cut much of the old paint, just sprayed on top.

OH my goodness - I just read the link to the por15 rust stuff. I have never heard that the product is recommended to be just painted over rust or a non prepped surface. If that is even remotely true, whoever came out with that should be hanged drawn and quartered.

Nothing in the world will fix up rust besides cutting it out, stripping it back.

Once you have gotten it all out, phosphoric acid (which you can get from chemical supply houses in fairly decent quantities cheaply, or for about 50 times the price from a autobarn or whatever (it's variously sold as de-oxidene, rust buster, god knows what other brands) can help. It is not a magic wand, but best guess is that it reacts with the surface layer of metal and more or less 'hogs' the metal and doesn't let the oxygen react with it, forming a sort of boundary or surface barrier to the beginning of rust. You still of course want to follow this coating with prepping, proper surface primer then the epoxy paint (for the undercarriage at any rate).

Do not EVER paint over rust. Do not ever think you can get away with less than full removal of any rust.

Do NOT leave a car in primer any longer than absolutely necessary (it is porous and will let moisture through). You see cars for sale that have been in primer for months - nothing short of sandblasting the whole darn shell that was primered will do. You'll see rust come right through before you know it.

Another thing to be careful of is galvanic corrosion. If you put a ferrous metal and a non ferrous one in contact with each other they will start to corrode one another. This can occur occasionally when hardware store screws or bolts are combined with bits of plate (alloy or something). Probably the most common place i see it is on trailers - home made ones - with angle iron frames and alloy sheets for the floor or vertical bits.

some very good points on rust, never let it rest and cut it out or
make sure you phosphorise the crap out of surface rust.

rust never sleeps, seems like that idea's gotten across, I think the major point thats being missed here is really DONT USE PHOSPHORIC ACID TREATMENTS UNLESS YOU COMPLETELY REMOVE & NEUTRALIZE IT PERIOD! you cant have an acid underneath a painted surface w/o some risk of it causing lifting & de-lamination of the painted surfaces above. You then need to sand it off to insure a clean & prepped metal surface thats ready to accept a layer of paint.

For example - if you acid treat then POR 15 the sh*t out of the surface prep you've given yourself the double whammy of potential paint failure. Ospho & other rust treatments are / were created for heavy industry where no one gives a crap how pretty their fishing vessel, excavator or tractor is, they just want practical application methods. A fishing vessel have what 3/8" plate steel ??? so is that going to rust thru or have problems like a car w/26 ga. steel.

Just lose the acid treatment bullsh*t altoghther & you'll all be better off, its the shortcut you dont really want to take. Ask yourself if its really worth the risk then throw that crap out of your paint arsenal!

Or if your a gambler........go ahead & use it just dont bitch when your paint fails.

Agree wholeheartedly. ALL rust should be COMPLETELY cut out.

99.9% of people also misunderstand "surface rust'. Surface rust is exactly that... a little bit of rust colour on the outside of a piece of bare metal, that you can easily sand/blast/etc off the metal. A rust bubble under paint is NOT surface rust. It is normally the worst kind of rust, being rust that starts from behind the panel, rusts through the metal, and then starts to come out the other side & through your paint. This type of rust needs to be COMPLETELY cut out.

Here's an example, from my bluebird.

I found a few spots of what most people would call "surface rust", but when I sanded them back they started getting bigger, not smaller!

I quickly figured out the problem, so cut out the piece entirely. May not look at that bad on the painted side...




But on the other side...!




The ONLY way to fix this is to cut out the metal and replace it:

D what is it that 1000's were dipped in from factory? That stuff has done a good job of keeping many 1000's relatively rust free.

There is nothing wrong with using good old deoxidene on surface rust. I would have no worries using it on the boot lid below. Deoxidene and scotchbrite or steelwool and scrub it. It will go black but you can keep scrubbing or wipe it off and then keep scrubbing till clean metal. Then wash it off with water. Then wipe the surface over with thinners or prepwash, then go about your normal repairs.

Deoxidene wont fix rust, it will only remove surface rust.

No need to scare monger about using it the way its intended.