dodgeman I think you will find selfwedge is talking about the sound the skiping tyre makes, not the clicking of the actual centre.
CIG, BOC are companies that sell gas for welding, MIG is a type of welder
EDIT sorry who your datty 1200 I reread and I will let dodgeman explain the difference

Click locker? It's a Detroit Locker. That's a brand name, not a nickname.
One is a real diferential, & the other is just a right angle reduction drive.

The Detroit Locker is a device that replaces the original diferential center. It will drive both wheels with a mechanical dog clutch arrangement when both wheels are traveling at the same speed [straight ahead]

When cornering, the faster [outside] wheel actually freewheels & the drive mechanism on the axle overides the one in the diff. As it moves ahead far enough, the teeth momentarily drop into the dogs, then ride on up & out again. This is what causes the clicking sound. During normal cornering, you actually have only one wheel drive.

If the driven wheel [tyre] should slip, or spin, the diff catches up with the freewheeling one, within one segment of the dog clutch, & both axles are locked in a positive drive. It will engage with a clunk, but this is normal.
Because tyres are normally never the exact same size, due to tyre pressure & wear, & even straight roads have some meandering, it is also normal to be driving along & still hear the occasional "click". It puts one off at first, but you soon become accustomed to it & it simply tells you that it is working as it should.

There are some driving techniques that need to be employed to get the best from them, but they will provide a POSITIVE LOCKED drive whenever you have wheel slippage. In the hands of the average bozo, they can be death on wheels, but for the man who understands them, they can do the deed just right.
All the advantages of a locked diff, but not the dissadvantages.

[edit] PDS.
I worked on the assumption that the skipping tyre made a chirping, or scrubbing sound. Clicking sounds are normally linked to a mechanical action of some sort.
Yes, i knew that CIG {Commonwealth Industrial Gasses] became BOC [British Oxygen Co.] & that MIG [Metal, Inert Gas] was a welding technology, but it would seem that few know about the genuine Detroit Locker.
While welding rods are cheap, & Lockers are not, the Locker is still far & away the better solution to the problem in all but actual competition use. They were widely used in many serious drag racers since the 60's

yeah i was under the impression he was talking about the skipping tyres.welded diffs dont use as much tyre as a fair few people seem to think. who really cares anyway, there is usually a down side to everything. eg. suspension stiffness gains handling but loses comfort. low suspension (to a point) creates a lower centre of gravity and therefore better handling but takes away driveablility. bigger turbos give more horsepower along with that comes lag. etc etc.

Drift.
I evaluated a Detroit Locker in a Falcon Van for about six months & wrote a monthly report on all trials. Even with the ability to unlock when necessary [diferential action] the front tyre life was significantly reduced from the average in my fleet of about 40,000k, to under 30,000k I think replacements were fitted at about 28,000k. In all fairness, the life of the second set of front tyres was better at 32.000k as i had learned to be more gentle with it. The "gentle" technique would have no beneficial effect on tyre life with a locked diff.
I drove it for over 50,000k & even the rears lasted for only about 32, to 34,000k. I was driving normally, with some experimental off-road use. [The real reason for the trial] In the hands of an "enthusiast" tyre life was regarded as being somewhat less.

A locked diff would ensure that tyre life was reduced even further, & when you need to get the best from your motoring dollar, this is not the way to do it. In normal fleet use, i was getting 50, to 55,000K from the tyres on a Falcon sized car, or about one set of tyres every ten months on average.

From 55,000 down to 28,000k for front tyres seems to me to be significant, although it must be understood that my Falcon wagon had radial highway tyres, & the evaluation van had a mud & snow type tread on it's radials for off road use, & this would affect the figures to a degree.

A Locker is much safer. In some applications. Eg a car with a fair bit of power. Listen, don't yell just yet. My reasoning: a car coming into a corner one wheeling all of a sudden two wheeling will catch you by surprise. With a locker, you are always anticipating it.

The biggest problem with lockers is that your low power Gemini/Torana drivers use them for circle work. These are the same wankers who write themselves off. You can't really blame the locker.

My brother's bluebird with FJ20DET with locked diff caused a few drama's when my mother drove it. She complained that it kept wanting to leave the road. Turned out that it was when coming out of roundabouts that she was used to letting go of the wheel in her Merc and it would gradually straighten up.

At slow speeds (1st gear) there is understeer to contend with, but oversteer is just a clutch fan away. . . At higher speeds and more flowing corners the tyre carcass takes up the slack. It is similar to driving a gokart/quad bike. My father (mechanic) who is ver much against modified vehicles drove the bluebird several times before commenting on how well the locker behaved. Most people have opinions based on heresay.

Drive a car with a locked diff for a week or so and then make a decision. I know guys who won't touch fuel injection also. . .

kid yourselves as much as you want - locked diffs are a pain in the ass for everyday cars. carparks, servos etc become a real chore. Steering effort increases, handing is compromised, and you will break axles. It might be 'fun' for a couple of months, but you will get sick of it sooner or later

On the track its a very different story. Some of the fastest Improved Prod cars run locked diffs. And V8 Supercars run spools. The horrible handling that you get on the street with a locked diff can be overcome with some good rubber and aggressive suspension geometry.

I disagree about Detroit Lockers being safer - the sudden drastic changes in handling behaviour mind corner is far worse than a constant handling trait. Detroits should be kept for drag cars and 4WDs.

Quote:you never have one wheel drive - even with an open centre torque is always distributed evenly to both axles. the difference lies in which wheel limits the amount of torque that can be applied.

Quote: getting the best from your motoring dollar is one of the main arguments for locked diffs. sure they reduce tyre life, but when your getting second hand tyres for less than the price of a lunch at maccas its no big deal. also im sure detroit lockers are expensive and if your looking to get the best for your motoring dollar, surely going out and blowing all your cash on something that behaves very similar to a locker isnt a good idea.?

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sorry L18_B110 im not trying to be a prick but just wondering how they are seen as a pain in the arse? we have already made the point that most people here, and rightly so beleive that they are alot less dangerous than open diffs. handling is in no way compromised it is gained dramatically in a street car, try going quick up a steep tight hairpin on a mountain road with an open diff, there is no way you could keep traction down. steering is heavier, but only noticable at low speeds doing a U turn or something but i dont have to do enough U turns to really worry about it. and i never snapped a single axle in the year and a half i had my locker. on the same note tho i totally agree that detroit lockers dont seem like they could really be safer, although i have never driven a car with one so who am i to judge?

how are they a pain in the arse?
low speed turns - like everytime you back out the driveway, everytime you pull into a servo, everytime you park, everytime you do a U-turn, everytime you go to the shops...

steering effort is increased and not just at low speeds - it loads up in long sweepers.

Quote:Your not describing the handling characteristics of the car - just its traction. And we're talking about street use here - you shouldn't be trying to exit steep tight hairpins at maximum possible velocity! Handling is very compromised for street use with locked diffs - understeer is unavoidable with street tyres. And wet weather handling is very compromised with locked diffs. I've seen idiots spin out at walking pace with lockers...

Here's a registered, street driven 1200 with a locked rear (Ford 9"). The turning circle is about double what a stock 1200 can turn, is that partly due to the locking spool? He had trouble turning it around to park, it scrubbed the tires pretty loudly turning on gravel.



12-second 1200

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Sorry L18_B110 I have to disagree here, I have had a mini spool in my commodore for a year now and I have never had a problem with it.