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Revision as of 06:38, 3 April 2013

S13 (1989-1993 Silvia, 180SX, 200SX) brakes can be modified for use on Datsun 1200 struts. They are large-diamter vented discs, so good for street and track use both.

1 Overview
2 Rim Size
3 Machining
- 3.1 1200 Drum Hubs
4 Longer Wheel Studs
5 Caliper Adapter Bracket
6 S13 Brakes on 120Y Disc-brake Struts
7 Part Numbers
8 Specifications

Overview

The reason to use S13 instead of S14 is that S13 is four-stud rotors. S14 has some five-bolt rotors on the turbo models, and the brakes are not any bigger.

KB110 Brakes:
* tiny single-pot twin-piston caliper
* tiny non-ventilated disc

S13 Brakes:
* large single-pot caliper 
* large ventilated disc

S13 came 4-bolt with various rotor sizes:

FRONT
250mm diameter Front 
251mm diameter Front USA Non-ABS
257mm diameter Front EUROPE late + USA ABS
280mm diameter 1991-1992 Turbo

REAR 
258mm diameter Rear

S13 brakes onto b110 struts discussion in Main Forum

Rim Size

14" wheels fit the 250mm brakes. The 280mm brakes use 15" wheels.

Certain 13" rims will fit 250mm brakes, but most will not.

13" Watanabe

13" alloy rim over 250mm brakes

Machining

S13 250mm rotor & caliper on 1200 disc brake struts requires some machining. But it gains ventilated rotors suitable for racing applications.

Machine hub registration diameter of rotor from 68 mm to 70 mm
Machine outer diameter of hub down to clear the inside of rotor
Buy or fabricate caliper adapter bracket

1200 Drum Hubs

You can also use early 1200 (B110) drum hubs which require no machining. The downside is the have a 5mm difference in offset, so either use custom brackets or a 5mm spacer.

Longer Wheel Studs

Since the S13 rotor floats over the 1200 hub, it will require longer wheel studs. Swap the S13 studs to the 1200 hubs, or swap in any compatible Wheel Studs.

Caliper Adapter Bracket

The calipers for 250mm & 280mm rotor use the same bolt spacing (reportedly 100mm or 103mm), so either caliper will work with an appropriate bracket adapter (obviously the spacing will need to vary). The hubs and spindles are the same regardless of brake size. The caliper bracket is much taller on the 280mm brakes -- and wider too to accomodate the wider brake pads.

silvia brakes on 120y strut

S13 Brakes on 120Y Disc-brake Struts

NOTE: 120Y is A12-powered B210. It uses different struts than A14-powered B210.

The Silvia S13, S14 centre bore is 68mm and the 1200 hub is 70mm at the disk seat. But the Silvia disk has a huge backspacing compared to the 1200 disk. Perhaps 2mm need to be machined off? custom adaptor plates for the caliper are also needed.

You need an adaptor plate for the the calipers.

You may need to swap the struts right-to-left and left-to-right to clear the steering arms. Also, mount the calipers INBOARD for better weight distribution.

'78 120y struts discs and calipers cos they're an aussie assembled PBR product. i aslo swapped the struts left to right to clear the steering arms once i put silvia rotors and calipers in place. low1000

Optional: use Hilux 4-pot calipers, which only involve the elongation of one bolt hole with a round file and then bolt straight up over 180SX discs. These are similar to MK63 calipers but are cast iron instead of alloy.

Wise words from Bundy351: I am running 120y struts in my 1200 ute. On these struts I have a Kev Rowley Brake adaptor plate (about $100 for the pair) Rotors, calipers, calliper bolts (2 per caliper) and wheel studs from a 1989 nissan silvia. You also need the flexi brake hose (mine came off a 1995 corolla cause thats all I could find). Very simple conversion.

MACHINE THE OUTER DIAMETER OF THE HUBS DOWN SO THE ROTOR WILL SLIDE OVER IT (150mm FROM MEMORY BUT I HAVE HAD ALLOT OF RUM SINCE I DID CONVERSION) PREFERABLY USE A LATHE BUT YOU CAN USE A GRINDER.
KNOCK OUT 120Y STUDS AND BANG IN SILVIA ONES
CUT A 10mm SLOT IN THE HOSE MOUNT ON THE STRUT TUBE (LITTLE METAL TAB THE BRAKE HOSE SITS IN)
BOLT BRACKETS TO STRUTS
SLIDE ROTORS ON
BOLT CALIPERS ON WITH PADS
CONNECT HOSES
BLEED
RE-FIT WHEELS
TEST DRIVE

WHERE TO CUT THE 10mm SLOT

WHAT THE BRACKET LOOKS LIKE

FINISHED PRODUCT

Part Numbers

RS13 Japan 180SX 8903-9812
[250 mm] 40206-35F01 8903-9101 CA18DET
[280 mm] 40206-55F03 9101-9812 SR20DE+SR20DET <> 40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02

S13 Japan Silvia 8805-9310
[250 mm] 40206-35F01 SR20DE.2WS+CA18DE+CA18DET 8805-9310 <> 40206-35F02
[280 mm] 40206-55F01 2WS.KS+4WS 9308- <> 40206-55F03,40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02

S13 EUROPE 200SX 0988-1293 (CA18DET)
[257 mm] 40206-71E01/40206-71E02 0988-0991
[280 mm] 40206-55F01/40206-55F03 0991-1293

S13 USA 240SX 0788-0993
[251 mm (9.9 inch), non-ABS] 40206-40F01 0788-0891, 40206-40F02 0891-0993
[257 mm (10.1 inch), ABS] 40206-71E01 1188-0993 OPTION F/ANTI SKID CONT-4WH 
<> 40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07

280mm
40206-7J101
 JAPAN
  * B15 0004- SR16VE
  * P11 0004- SR20VE, 4WD.SR20DE.MT, SR20DE.AT.F4
  * U14 0004- SR20VE
  * WP11 0004- SR20DE.MT.FT + SR20DE.AT.F4
  * WP11 0004- SR20DE.AT.CVT + SR20VE
40206-55F03
 JAPAN
  * P11 SR20VE, OPTION SR20DE
  * RS13, S13 some
  * U14 SR20VE
  * WP11 some
  * A31 4WD.IRS.RB20DT, OPTION.2WD.IRS+2WD.HICAS.RB20DT.AT.FR, OPTION.RB20
  * C33 some
  * C34 some
  * R32 some
 USA
  * U13U 0692-0794 KA24DE.SE, OPTION.GXE, OPTION.AT
  * U13U 0794- KA24DE
 
251mm
40206-40F01/40206-40F02
 JAPAN
  * A31 RB20E
  * C33 CA18I + RB20E + RD28
  * R32 CA18I
 USA
  * S13

S13 Japan 
40206-35F01 ROTOR-DISC BRAKE, FRONT <> 40206-35F02,40206-35F03
  41001-35F00 CALIPER (RH) <> 41001-35F01 
  * 8805-9101 CA18DE+CA18DET
    AY040-NS926 PAD KIT <> AY040-NS825
  * 9101-9310 2WS.SR20DE
    AY040-NS926 PAD KIT <> AY040-NS009
40206-73L01 ROTOR-DISC BRAKE, FRONT <> 40206-73L02,40206-55F01,40206-55F03,40206-7J101
  41001-73L01 CALIPER (RH)
  * 9101-9310 2WS.KS+4WS
    AY040-NS929 PAD KIT
40206-71E01,40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07
* ABS/ANTI-SKID

250mm pads are same as
* SUZUKI SWIFT 
  Hatchback (EA, MA) 8903-0312
  Sedan (AH, AJ)     8903-0105

Specifications

250 mm
Thickness: 18 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm

251 mm
Height: 49.2 mm
Thickness: 20 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.75 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm

257 mm
Height: 49 mm
Thickness: 22 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.6 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
inside diameter (over hub): 144
Caliper: Akebono

280 mm
Height: 49 mm
Thickness: 22 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
inside diameter (over hub): 143.75
Caliper: Sumitomo

258 mm REAR
Height: 46.5 mm
Thickness: 9 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.75 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm

[for 250 mm rotor]
AY040-NS926, AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009
Sangsin SP1183

[for 280mm rotor]
AY040-NS929 
Bosch 0986493450

[for 251 mm rotor]
41060-40F90,41060-40F91,41060-40F92,41060-40F92,D106M-40F90,D106M-40F94,D106M-40F25
Centric 102.04220

[for 257 mm rotor]
41060-G8190,D106M-G8190
Centric 301.07000

USA S13
251 mm rotor (non-ABS)
* caliper: 54mm bore (2.122")
* pads: 121x50.4 41060-G8190 D422
257 mm rotor (ABS)
* caliper: 57mm bore (2.25")
* pads: 137x54.3 41060-40F90 D449,D462,D469,D485,D700,D747,DD887
REAR 258 mm rotor
* caliper: 33mm bore (1-5/16")
* pads: 85.3x42.9 D230,D231,D232,D272
Use with wheels:
 6JJx15 +40
 4Tx15 +40
 4Tx16 +35

JAPAN SILVIA
250 mm rotor
* Caliper: 48mm bore
* pad: 115x47.6 AY040-NS926
* 5Jx14 wheel
280 mm rotor
* Caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137.2x53 AY040-NS929
* 6JJx15 +40 wheel

EUROPE 200SX
257 mm rotor to 09/1991
* caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137x54.6
280 mm rotor from 10/1991
* caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137.2x53

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S13 Brakes