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[Datsun 1200 encyclopedia]

S13 Brakes

From Datsun 1200 Club

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Category: Brake Modifications

S13 (1989-1993 Silvia, 180SX, 200SX) brakes can be used on Datsun 1200 struts. They are large-diameter vented discs, so good for street and track use both. The 250 mm rotor fits under 14" wheels, while the 280 mm rotor requires 15" wheels. Alternatively the 257 mm rotor is a great alternative and also available from many Nissan vehicles besides the S13. Complete bolt-in with no welding. Does not require re-alignment or ride-height adjustment like most big-brake upgrades.


Contents

Overview

RS13 fastback (240SX Coupe, 180SX) | S13 notchback (Silvia, 240SX Hardtop, 200SX)
400px-1st_generation_Nissan_180SX.jpgWIKI go to Wikipedia 208px-Nissan_13_silvia.jpgWIKI go to Wikipedia

The reason to use S13 instead of S14 is that S13 is four-stud rotors. Some S14 have five-bolt rotors on the turbo models, yet the brakes are not any bigger.

See 258mm Brake Upgrade for lighter, non-vented brakes
vented_brake_rotors.jpg

B110 rotor vs 280mm vented rotor
10513_4c600dce46152_.jpgPost click for topic

KB110 Brakes:
* tiny twin-piston caliper
* tiny non-ventilated disc
S13 Brakes:
* large single-piston caliper 
* large ventilated disc

S13 brakes on 1200 struts
8606.jpgAlbum click to view 8889.jpgAlbum click to view

S13 came 4-bolt with various rotor sizes:

FRONT
250mm diameter Front Turbo & non-turbo
251mm diameter Front USA Non-ABS
257mm diameter Front EUROPE late + USA ABS
280mm diameter 1991-1992 Turbo & non-turbo

The 250s are commonly called "CA" rotors, while the 280s are called "SR" rotors. However both sizes come with various engines.

REAR 
258mm diameter Rear

S13 roto comparo: 250mm rotor vs 280mm rotor | optional cross-drilled
22450.jpgAlbum click to view 17122_58c5028d54f79.jpgPost click for topic

280mm rotors on 1200 struts
12887.jpgAlbum click to view 17122_58c5027fd481c.jpgPost click for topic

250mm rotors & calipers
3FAECF81-8361-43AD-BB80-DB40EFCF5C78.jpg

Steps

  1. Get 1200 disc struts*
  2. Obtain hubs from 1200 drum struts**
  3. Fit longer wheel studs to the hubs
  4. Remove the 1200 disc hubs & fit the drum hubs
  5. Obtain matched set of S13 rotors & calipers & caliper adapter
  6. Machine rotor centers from 68 mm out to 70 mm to clear the 1200 hub center***
    Not necessary when using 1200 drum hubs
  7. Bolt on the caliper adapter, slip on the rotor and bolt on the caliper
  8. Fit a new lower half brake hose and bleed the brakes

* You could use 1200 drum struts. See the drum strut section below.

** You can use 1200 disc hubs, but they will increase the track 10mm and they require machining (explained in section "machined hubs" below)

*** Instead of boring out the rotor, you could machine the hub down to 68 mm. However it is cheaper and easier to machine the rotors out 3mm, and easier to fit the disc in a lathe than to setup the hub for machining. On the other hand, modding the hubs allows for quick and easy rotor changes. Your choice.

The rotor hat thickness is 7.7 mm. This also means track increases 7.7 x 2 = 15.4 mm total. Using a 1200 drum hub on the 1200 disc strut will prevent the track increase but then will require a spacer for the caliper.

Rim Size

14" wheels fit the 250mm and 257mm brakes. The 280mm brakes use 15" or 16" wheels.

Certain 13" rims will fit 250mm brakes, but most will not.

13" Watanabe
P5150104.jpgPost click for topic

13" alloy rim over 250mm brakes
15513.jpgAlbum click to view

Hubs

B110 Drum Hubs

Use 1200 (B110) drum hubs on the 1200 disc struts. They bolt right on.

  • B110 is 1970-1973 Datsun 1200
  • They require no machining
  • They do not increase the track
  • No need to modify the drum hub
  • POST No need to modify the rotor

NOTE: 1976- and new 120Y drum hubs or B120 ute/truck drum hubs reportedly require slight machining (about 1 mm off the outside diameter). If you have 1976-1985 struts, the B110 hubs won't bolt on and you'll have to use the newer hubs.

There is a 5mm difference in offset compared to disc hubs, so either use thicker caliper bracket or a 5mm spacer on the "standard" custom bracket.
15514.jpgAlbum click to view

You can use precision (flat) washers to space out the caliper adapter. Then the caliper bolts straight on with no fiddling. Some have spaced out the caliper, but that is a pain when bolting on the caliper.

12610.jpgAlbum click to view

Machined Hubs

You can use the 1200 disc hubs, but it will increase track, and requires some machining.

  • Machine hub registration diameter of rotor from 68 mm to 70 mm
  • Machine outer diameter of hub down to clear the inside of rotor
Machining required (estimates)
none 180 Hub (early drum)
5mm  H10 Hub (early disc)
2mm  H74 Hub (late drum or disc)

Is it safe to machine the hub down to 140 mm diameter? Well the drum hubs are only 135 mm, and they hold up the same car with no problem.

11918.jpgAlbum click to view

Longer Wheel Studs

Since the S13 rotor floats over the 1200 hub, it will require longer wheel studs. Swap the S13 studs to the 1200 hubs, or swap in any used studs from an S13/R32/A31 etc. Also compatible Wheel Studs.

The rotor hat thickness is 7.7 mm -- so the studs need to be at least 8mm longer than stock.

On the old S13 hubs, knock the studs out using a small sledge hammer. They can be fitted into the 1200 hubs.

Caliper Adapter Bracket

For 1200 disc brake struts & hub, use a 12mm thick bracket to center the S13 caliper over the S13 rotor. When using disc strut with drum hub you will need 5mm spacers (or a 17mm thick bracket).

Bracket for 250mm rotor differs from 280mm rotor. Although some brackets can accomodate either rotor. The Kev Rowley brackets work with either size of discs and calipers.


IMPORTANT: When purchasing adapters, ask the seller which caliper and which rotor they are for.

POST Discussion

Kev Rowley bracket
11897.jpgAlbum click to view

16267.jpgAlbum click to view 17061.jpgAlbum click to view

The calipers for 250mm & 280mm rotor use the same bolt spacing (reportedly 100mm or 103mm), so either caliper will work with an appropriate bracket adapter (obviously the spacing will need to vary). The hubs and spindles are the same regardless of brake size. The caliper bracket is much taller on the 280mm brakes -- and wider too to accomodate the wider brake pads.
280vs251.jpg

POST silvia brakes on 120y strut
PA051868.jpg P5170113.jpg P5170115.jpg P5170118.jpg

13-inch "minilites" interference problem
15540.jpgAlbum click to view

280mm brakes
Templateforprimeracaliper.jpgPost click for topic NewBitmapImage_zps83c0b7ac.jpgPost click for topic

Master Cylinder

Use the stock 1200 disc brake master cylinder with S13 brake calipers.

Brake Booster

A brake booster is not needed -- S13 brakes on a 1200 meet engineering specs in regards to pedal effort. However, applying the brakes will need a little more leg pressure, so you may find a booster helpful. See Brake Booster Swaps

Brake Hoses

Obtain the S13 brake hoses and fit the from the S13 caliper to the 1200's hardlines.

One end to fit the 1200's hardline: M10
One end to fit the S13 caliper banjo fitting
12.125" length (approximately 1 inch longer than 1200 hose)
Rockauto.com
152_HB51329_1.jpg
Non-ABS model S13

Other hoses can also be used, including N14 Pulsar (1990-1995) and even Corolla hoses.

S13 Brakes on 120Y Disc-brake Struts

NOTE: 120Y is A12-powered B210. It uses different struts than A14-powered B210 (HB210).

120Y uses the same struts as Datsun 1200.

The Silvia S13, S14 centre bore is 68mm and the 1200 hub is 70mm at the disk seat. But the Silvia disk has a huge backspacing compared to the 1200 disk, so a caliper spacer/adapter is needed. Also a few mm need to be machined off the hub diameter.

You need an adaptor plate for the the calipers.

Early 120Y

1974-1975 cars use the same strut and brakes as Datsun B110.

Wise words from Bundy351: I am running 120y struts in my 1200 ute. On these struts I have a Kev Rowley Brake adaptor plate (about $100 for the pair) Rotors, calipers, calliper bolts (2 per caliper) and wheel studs from a 1989 nissan silvia. You also need the flexi brake hose (mine came off a 1995 corolla cause thats all I could find). Very simple conversion.

  • MACHINE THE OUTER DIAMETER OF THE HUBS DOWN SO THE ROTOR WILL SLIDE OVER IT (150mm FROM MEMORY BUT I HAVE HAD ALLOT OF RUM SINCE I DID CONVERSION) PREFERABLY USE A LATHE BUT YOU CAN USE A GRINDER.
  • KNOCK OUT 120Y STUDS AND BANG IN SILVIA ONES
  • CUT A 10mm SLOT IN THE HOSE MOUNT ON THE STRUT TUBE (LITTLE METAL TAB THE BRAKE HOSE SITS IN)
  • BOLT BRACKETS TO STRUTS
  • SLIDE ROTORS ON
  • BOLT CALIPERS ON WITH PADS
  • CONNECT HOSES
  • BLEED
  • RE-FIT WHEELS
  • TEST DRIVE

WHERE TO CUT THE 10mm SLOT
11894.jpgAlbum click to view

WHAT THE BRACKET LOOKS LIKE
11895.jpgAlbum click to view

FINISHED PRODUCT
11896.jpgAlbum click to view

Late 120Y

1976-1978 120Y used the same struts and brakes as 1976-up Datsun 1200 ute (H74 suspension). The brake upgrade is done exactly as for earlier 120Y.

Aussie-assembled 120Y

1977-1978 Australian SEDANS used locally-source PBR brake caliper and a factory caliper adapter.

You may need to swap the struts right-to-left and left-to-right to clear the steering arms. You can also mount the calipers INBOARD for better weight distribution.

'78 120y struts discs and calipers cos they're an aussie assembled PBR product. i also swapped the struts left to right to clear the steering arms once i put silvia rotors and calipers in place. low1000

Optional: use Hilux 4-pot calipers, which only involve the elongation of one bolt hole with a round file and then bolt straight up over 180SX discs. These are similar to MK63 Brakes calipers but are cast iron instead of alloy.

13907.jpgAlbum click to view

S13 Brakes on Drum Struts

POST Chassis_slappin_1200 pioneered this swap. He made a bracket that allowed the calipers to be bolted the drum-brake strut.

 Drum Strut
 * 1970-1975 small spindle
 * 1976-1989 large spindle

12611.jpgAlbum click to view

12931.jpgAlbum click to view

12933.jpgAlbum click to view

POST Chassis_slappin_1200 talked about making the adapter template available for download.

Using drum struts requires grinding the strut and fabricating a caliper bracket.

Chassis_slappin_1200 brake conversion

1st try: Bolt-on S14 250mm rotors
11281.jpgAlbum click to view 11287.jpgAlbum click to view

2nd try: Slip-on S13 rotor
12610.jpgAlbum click to view 12609.jpgAlbum click to view 12611.jpgAlbum click to view 12612.jpgAlbum click to view 12929.jpgAlbum click to view 12930.jpgAlbum click to view 12931.jpgAlbum click to view 12932.jpgAlbum click to view 12933.jpgAlbum click to view

Part Numbers

Rotor

RS13 Japan 180SX 8903-9812
[250 mm] 40206-35F01 8903-9101 CA18DET
[280 mm] 40206-55F03 9101-9812 SR20DE+SR20DET <> 40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02
S13 Japan Silvia 8805-9310
[250 mm] 40206-35F01 SR20DE.2WS+CA18DE+CA18DET 8805-9310 <> 40206-35F02
[280 mm] 40206-55F01 2WS.KS+4WS 9308- <> 40206-55F03,40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02
S13 EUROPE 200SX 0988-1293 (CA18DET)
[257 mm] 40206-71E01/40206-71E02 0988-0991
[280 mm] 40206-55F01/40206-55F03 0991-1293
S13 USA 240SX 0788-0993
[251 mm (9.9 inch), non-ABS] 40206-40F01 0788-0891, 40206-40F02 0891-0993
[257 mm (10.1 inch), ABS] 40206-71E01 1188-0993 OPTION F/ANTI SKID CONT-4WH 
<> 40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07

Rear Rotor

For comparison.

43207
AUS/USA
258mm 43206-35F00/43206-35F01
EUROPE 200SX 0988-1293 (CA18DET)
265mm 43206-44F02/43206-44F01 <> 43206-15U00
JAPAN
258mm 43206-68F00 <> 43026-53F00 <> 43206-70F00

Caliper

JAPAN caliper
[f/250mm rotor] 41001-35F00,41001-35F01
[f/280mm rotor] 41001-73L01 
EUROPE caliper
[f/257mm rotor] 41001-44F00,41001-44F01 -0991
[f/280mm rotor] 41001-73L01 0991-
[f/rear rotor]  44001-44F00
USA caliper
[f/251mm rotor] 41001-40F00,41001-40F01 (non-ABS)
[f/257mm rotor] 41001-44F00,41001-44F01 (ABS)
251 vs 280 calipers
* different shape pads
* different height (for larger rotor)
280vs251.jpg

Interchange

S13 vs S14

JAPAN
S13 used 250 or 280 mm rotors
S14 used 251 or 275 mm rotors on base SR20DE 2WS models. 5-lug on others.
* 251mm 40206-40F03 9310-9606 40206-40F02
* 257mm 40206-71E07 9606-9812 40206-71E06 

EUROPE
S13 used 257 or 280 mm rotors
S14 used 5-lug rotors
USA
S13 used 251 or 257 mm rotors
S14 used same for STD models. SE models used 5-lug rotors

250 mm

Nissan 40206-35F01,40206-35F02 ROTOR
DBA 918
JAPAN
  S13 Silvia
 RS13 180SX
250mm pads are same as
* SUZUKI SWIFT 
  Hatchback (EA, MA) 8903-0312
  Sedan (AH, AJ)     8903-0105

251 mm

40206-40F01,40206-40F02,40206-40F03
Brembo 09.5281.10
 JAPAN
  * A31 Cefiro RB20E
  * C33 Laurel CA18I + RB20E + RD28
  * R32 Skyline CA18I
 USA
  * S13 240SX non-ABS
  * S14 240SX 4-lug 0294-0796

257 mm

Nissan 40206-71E01,40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07
Brembo 09.5449.10
DBA 617
AUSTRALIA
U12 Pintara
JAPAN
S14 9606- 2WS.SR20DE
M11 Prairie 8809-9508
C22 Vanette 8809-9403
C33 Laurel 8812-9212
C34 Laurel 9301-9705
P10/W10 Primera 9002-9611
WP11 9709-0011
R32 Skyline 8905-9411
A31 Cefiro 8809-9406
U12 Bluebird 8709-9108
U13 Bluebird 9109-9511
U14 Bluebird 9601-
USA 
S13 240SX 1188-0993 with ABS
S14 240SX 0796-0698 STD (except SE)
M11 Axxess 0189-0394
U12 Stanza 0789-0692

280 mm

Nissan 40206-7J101,40206-55F01,40206-55F03,40206-73L01,40206-2F501
DBA 919, DBA 903
Brembo 09.5254.20
Ferodo DDF959
 JAPAN
  * B15 0004- SR16VE
  * P11 0004- SR20VE, 4WD.SR20DE.MT, SR20DE.AT.F4
  * U14 0004- SR20VE
  * WP11 0004- SR20DE.MT.FT + SR20DE.AT.F4
  * WP11 0004- SR20DE.AT.CVT + SR20VE
  * P11 SR20VE, OPTION SR20DE
  * RS13, S13 some
  * U14 SR20VE
  * WP11 some
  * A31 4WD.IRS.RB20DT, OPTION.2WD.IRS+2WD.HICAS.RB20DT.AT.FR, OPTION.RB20
  * C33 some
  * C34 some
  * R32 some
 USA
  * U13U 0692-0794 KA24DE.SE, OPTION.GXE, OPTION.AT
  * U13U 0794- KA24DE
 AUS - DBA919
  * S13 Silvia 1991-1992 SR20DE
  * S13 180SX 1991-1998 SR20DET
  * P11 Primera 1995-2002 SR20DE
  * N16 Pulsar 2001-2006 QG18DE
COMPARISON - 5-lug
Z31 300ZX - DBA907 26 thick
Z32 300ZX - DBA909 30 thick
280 dia
54 height
68 mm center hole
5-hole

Specifications

250 mm
Thickness: 18 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Height: 49 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
251 mm
Height: 49.2 mm
Thickness: 20 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.75 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
257 mm
Height: 49 mm
Thickness: 22 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.6 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
inside diameter (over hub): 144
Caliper: Akebono
280 mm
Height: 49 mm
Thickness: 22 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
inside diameter (over hub): 143.75
Caliper: Sumitomo
258 mm REAR
Height: 46.5 mm
Thickness: 9 mm nominal
Hub Reg: 68 mm
Bolt Size 12.75 mm
Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
USA S13
251 mm rotor (non-ABS)
* caliper: 54mm bore (2.122")
* pads: 121x50.4 41060-G8190 D422
257 mm rotor (ABS)
* caliper: 57mm bore (2.25")
* pads: 137x54.3 41060-40F90 D449,D462,D469,D485,D700,D747,DD887
REAR 258 mm rotor
* caliper: 33mm bore (1-5/16")
* pads: 85.3x42.9 D230,D231,D232,D272
Use with wheels:
 6JJx15 +40
 4Tx15 +40
 4Tx16 +35
JAPAN SILVIA
250 mm rotor
* Caliper: 48mm bore
* pad: 115x47.6 AY040-NS926
* 5Jx14 wheel
280 mm rotor
* Caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137.2x53 AY040-NS929
* 6JJx15 +40 wheel
EUROPE 200SX
257 mm rotor to 09/1991
* caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137x54.6
280 mm rotor from 10/1991
* caliper: 54mm bore
* pad: 137.2x53

Brake Pads

Pads for 250mm rotor vs 280mm rotor
22451.jpgAlbum click to view 174_571e96c563cb0.jpg

[for 250 mm rotor] 114.8 x 49 mm
AY040-NS926, AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009
Sangsin SP1183
Bosch 0986493450
0986493450.jpg
S13 Japan - 250 mm rotor
AY040-NS926 PAD KIT <> AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009
[for 280mm rotor] 137 x 53 x 15.5 mm
AY040-NS929
SP1183.jpg
S13 Japan - 280 mm rotor
* AY040-NS929 PAD KIT
[for 251 mm rotor] 121 x 50.4 mm
41060-40F90,41060-40F91,41060-40F92,41060-40F92,D106M-40F90,D106M-40F94,D106M-40F25
Centric 102.04220
10204220.jpg
[for 257 mm rotor] 137 x 54.3 x 17 mm
41060-G8190,D106M-G8190
Centric 301.07000
30107000.jpg

250 vs 280
250vs280.jpg

S13 brakes on B310 Strut

darrenwilson put S13 brakes on B310 struts. POST Datsun 1200 Sedan Build and POST photos

Darren used 250mm S13 discs with Y11 calipers

1996-2005 Nissan Y11 AD
Wingroad/Pulsar wagon

B310 A12 (small) rotor laid on top of S13 rotor
26860.jpgAlbum click to view

Y11 pad | B310/B110 (small) pad
26863.jpgAlbum click to view th_SAM_0817_zps39b66ccb.jpg th_SAM_0804_zpse36df71c.jpg th_SAM_0792_zpsc1aadf53.jpg th_SAM_1705_zpsd29cf39d.jpg th_SAM_1706_zps7e50fa4a.jpg

257 Rotor

257mm rotors came on S13 EUROPE & USA, and S14 JAPAN -- and Nissan U12 Stanza/Bluebird (Pintara in AUSTRALIA), among others (see #Interchange section).

1200 Disc Hubs

The normal mods are done to fit the S13 rotors to the 1200/120Y struts.

  • 1200/120Y drum hubs need to mods to fit the S13 rotors, or disc brake hubs can be used with machining. See #Hubs section
  • Use a custom #caliper locating bracket of appropriate dimensions

1200 hubs with U12 Pintara 257 x 22 mm vented rotors with VK Commodore Girlock calipers (same as Skyline R31 calipers but without the external fins which limit rim selection).
25920.jpgAlbum click to view 25919.jpgAlbum click to view
Photo is of Datsun 1000 suspension with 1200 disc brake hubs. A custom steel bracket is fabricated for the caliper mounting.

Turn down the flanges a little bit on the 1200 disc hubs. Discussion: POST 1000 for sale

2-inch Struts

If you have Stanza/Sunny/200B struts, use the 4 spot Hilux Calipers which are a direct bolt-on requiring no adapter. The rotor requires machining of the bolt holes that bolt it to the hub.

PARTS LIST
* 257 mm Nissan S13/S14/U12 rotors (DBA617)
* 4-pot Hilux Calipers and pads
* 2.0" Struts (A10, B310, etc)
* brake hoses

POST 1200rallycar: using U12 pintara discs you need to:

... re-drill discs to 4x100mm to mount to hub machine out centre of disc slightly grind caliper to clear centre of hub

... possibly grind caliper to fit under 13" rims (depends on exact rim) you may also have to grind a little fat off the pad itself on the inside edge to clear the hub, cant remember but srb210 mentioned that no spacers required, no changing to caliper mount just straight on to stanza mount caliper mounts to the back side of the car (in relation to the strut)

kit
1324.jpgAlbum click to view

U12 GLOBAL rotors
[250x22] 40206-51E01 CA18N+CA20S
[257x22] 40206-71E06 CA20E <5> 40206-4M405
U12 JAPAN
[250x22] 40206-51E01 CA16S,CA18I.2WD,LD20,SR18DI
[257x22] 40206-71E01 CA18DE,CA18DET,4WD.CA18I, SSS.SR18DI, SR20D
[280x22] 40206-80E01 8910- SR20DT 5-lug
DBA 617 Rotor
* Vented
* Diameter 257
* Height 49
* Thickness 22
* Min Thickness 20
* Centre Hole Dia 68
* Bolt holes 4

S13 Brakes on A10 Struts

Stanza A10 struts & hubs, with S13 rotors bolted behind hub
10743.jpgAlbum click to view
* bore rotor centre out to 73mm to fit the back of the hub
* drill the rotor for 95mm PCD for the hub bolts
* bolt rotor to the back of the hub

You may fit your choice of calipers. One of the largest which will fit under (some) 13" alloy wheels is the 4-piston Sumitomo S12+8.

S12 calipers bolt directly to A10 Stanza struts (no adapter needed)
10742.jpgAlbum click to view
Caliper is shimmed/spaced about 1mm to achieve dead centre.

To clear the S12 calipers, the rotor must be machined:
11508.jpgAlbum click to view

To clear the S13 rotors, the S12+8 calipers & brake pads must be ground:
11507.jpgAlbum click to view 

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