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| * 1200/120Y drum hubs need to mods to fit the S13 rotors, or disc brake hubs can be used with machining. See [[#Hubs]] section | * 1200/120Y drum hubs need to mods to fit the S13 rotors, or disc brake hubs can be used with machining. See [[#Hubs]] section | ||
| - | * Use a caliper locating bracket of appropriate dimensions | + | * Use a custom [[#Caliper Adapter Bracket|#caliper locating bracket]] of appropriate dimensions |
| 1200 hubs with U12 Pintara 257 x 22 mm vented rotors with VK Commodore Girlock calipers (same as Skyline [[R31#250_mm|R31]] calipers but without the external fins which limit rim selection). | 1200 hubs with U12 Pintara 257 x 22 mm vented rotors with VK Commodore Girlock calipers (same as Skyline [[R31#250_mm|R31]] calipers but without the external fins which limit rim selection). | ||
Revision as of 01:38, 20 March 2019
S13 (1989-1993 Silvia, 180SX, 200SX) brakes can be used on Datsun 1200 struts. They are large-diameter vented discs, so good for street and track use both. The 250 mm rotor fits under 14" wheels, while the 280 mm rotor requires 15" wheels. Alternatively the 257 mm rotor is a great alternative and also available from many Nissan vehicles besides the S13. Complete bolt-in with no welding. Does not require re-alignment or ride-height adjustment like most big-brake upgrades.
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Overview
RS13 fastback (240SX Coupe, 180SX) | S13 notchback (Silvia, 240SX Hardtop, 200SX)
The reason to use S13 instead of S14 is that S13 is four-stud rotors. Some S14 have five-bolt rotors on the turbo models, yet the brakes are not any bigger.
See 258mm Brake Upgrade for lighter, non-vented brakes
B110 rotor vs 280mm vented rotor
KB110 Brakes: * tiny twin-piston caliper * tiny non-ventilated disc
S13 Brakes: * large single-piston caliper * large ventilated disc
S13 brakes on 1200 struts
S13 came 4-bolt with various rotor sizes:
FRONT 250mm diameter Front Turbo & non-turbo 251mm diameter Front USA Non-ABS 257mm diameter Front EUROPE late + USA ABS 280mm diameter 1991-1992 Turbo & non-turbo
The 250s are commonly called "CA" rotors, while the 280s are called "SR" rotors. However both sizes come with various engines.
REAR 258mm diameter Rear
S13 roto comparo: 250mm rotor vs 280mm rotor | optional cross-drilled
- POST S13 brakes onto b110 struts discussion in Main Forum
- POST once again the s13 disk conversion more discussion
280mm rotors on 1200 struts
250mm rotors & calipers
Steps
- Get 1200 disc struts*
- Obtain hubs from 1200 drum struts**
- Fit longer wheel studs to the hubs
- Remove the 1200 disc hubs & fit the drum hubs
- Obtain matched set of S13 rotors & calipers & caliper adapter
- Machine rotor centers from 68 mm out to 70 mm to clear the 1200 hub center***
- Not necessary when using 1200 drum hubs
- Bolt on the caliper adapter, slip on the rotor and bolt on the caliper
- Fit a new lower half brake hose and bleed the brakes
* You could use 1200 drum struts. See the drum strut section below.
** You can use 1200 disc hubs, but they will increase the track 10mm and they require machining (explained in section "machined hubs" below)
*** Instead of boring out the rotor, you could machine the hub down to 68 mm. However it is cheaper and easier to machine the rotors out 3mm, and easier to fit the disc in a lathe than to setup the hub for machining. On the other hand, modding the hubs allows for quick and easy rotor changes. Your choice.
The rotor hat thickness is 7.7 mm. This also means track increases 7.7 x 2 = 15.4 mm total. Using a 1200 drum hub on the 1200 disc strut will prevent the track increase but then will require a spacer for the caliper.
Rim Size
14" wheels fit the 250mm and 257mm brakes. The 280mm brakes use 15" or 16" wheels.
Certain 13" rims will fit 250mm brakes, but most will not.
13" Watanabe
13" alloy rim over 250mm brakes
Hubs
B110 Drum Hubs
Use 1200 (B110) drum hubs on the 1200 disc struts. They bolt right on.
- B110 is 1970-1973 Datsun 1200
- They require no machining
- They do not increase the track
- No need to modify the drum hub
- POST No need to modify the rotor
NOTE: 1976- and new 120Y drum hubs or B120 ute/truck drum hubs reportedly require slight machining (about 1 mm off the outside diameter). If you have 1976-1985 struts, the B110 hubs won't bolt on and you'll have to use the newer hubs.
There is a 5mm difference in offset compared to disc hubs, so either use thicker caliper bracket or a 5mm spacer on the "standard" custom bracket.
You can use precision (flat) washers to space out the caliper adapter. Then the caliper bolts straight on with no fiddling. Some have spaced out the caliper, but that is a pain when bolting on the caliper.
Machined Hubs
You can use the 1200 disc hubs, but it will increase track, and requires some machining.
- Machine hub registration diameter of rotor from 68 mm to 70 mm
- Machine outer diameter of hub down to clear the inside of rotor
Machining required (estimates) none 180 Hub (early drum) 5mm H10 Hub (early disc) 2mm H74 Hub (late drum or disc)
Is it safe to machine the hub down to 140 mm diameter? Well the drum hubs are only 135 mm, and they hold up the same car with no problem.
Longer Wheel Studs
Since the S13 rotor floats over the 1200 hub, it will require longer wheel studs. Swap the S13 studs to the 1200 hubs, or swap in any used studs from an S13/R32/A31 etc. Also compatible Wheel Studs.
The rotor hat thickness is 7.7 mm -- so the studs need to be at least 8mm longer than stock.
On the old S13 hubs, knock the studs out using a small sledge hammer. They can be fitted into the 1200 hubs.
Caliper Adapter Bracket
For 1200 disc brake struts & hub, use a 12mm thick bracket to center the S13 caliper over the S13 rotor. When using disc strut with drum hub you will need 5mm spacers (or a 17mm thick bracket).
Bracket for 250mm rotor differs from 280mm rotor. Although some brackets can accomodate either rotor. The Kev Rowley brackets work with either size of discs and calipers.
IMPORTANT: When purchasing adapters, ask the seller which caliper and which rotor they are for.
Kev Rowley bracket
The calipers for 250mm & 280mm rotor use the same bolt spacing (reportedly 100mm or 103mm), so either caliper will work with an appropriate bracket adapter (obviously the spacing will need to vary). The hubs and spindles are the same regardless of brake size. The caliper bracket is much taller on the 280mm brakes -- and wider too to accomodate the wider brake pads.
POST silvia brakes on 120y strut
13-inch "minilites" interference problem
280mm brakes
Master Cylinder
Use the stock 1200 disc brake master cylinder with S13 brake calipers.
Brake Booster
A brake booster is not needed -- S13 brakes on a 1200 meet engineering specs in regards to pedal effort. However, applying the brakes will need a little more leg pressure, so you may find a booster helpful. See Brake Booster Swaps
Brake Hoses
Obtain the S13 brake hoses and fit the from the S13 caliper to the 1200's hardlines.
One end to fit the 1200's hardline: M10 One end to fit the S13 caliper banjo fitting 12.125" length (approximately 1 inch longer than 1200 hose) Rockauto.comNon-ABS model S13
Other hoses can also be used, including N14 Pulsar (1990-1995) and even Corolla hoses.
S13 Brakes on 120Y Disc-brake Struts
NOTE: 120Y is A12-powered B210. It uses different struts than A14-powered B210 (HB210).
120Y uses the same struts as Datsun 1200.
The Silvia S13, S14 centre bore is 68mm and the 1200 hub is 70mm at the disk seat. But the Silvia disk has a huge backspacing compared to the 1200 disk, so a caliper spacer/adapter is needed. Also a few mm need to be machined off the hub diameter.
You need an adaptor plate for the the calipers.
Early 120Y
1974-1975 cars use the same strut and brakes as Datsun B110.
Wise words from Bundy351: I am running 120y struts in my 1200 ute. On these struts I have a Kev Rowley Brake adaptor plate (about $100 for the pair) Rotors, calipers, calliper bolts (2 per caliper) and wheel studs from a 1989 nissan silvia. You also need the flexi brake hose (mine came off a 1995 corolla cause thats all I could find). Very simple conversion.
- MACHINE THE OUTER DIAMETER OF THE HUBS DOWN SO THE ROTOR WILL SLIDE OVER IT (150mm FROM MEMORY BUT I HAVE HAD ALLOT OF RUM SINCE I DID CONVERSION) PREFERABLY USE A LATHE BUT YOU CAN USE A GRINDER.
- KNOCK OUT 120Y STUDS AND BANG IN SILVIA ONES
- CUT A 10mm SLOT IN THE HOSE MOUNT ON THE STRUT TUBE (LITTLE METAL TAB THE BRAKE HOSE SITS IN)
- BOLT BRACKETS TO STRUTS
- SLIDE ROTORS ON
- BOLT CALIPERS ON WITH PADS
- CONNECT HOSES
- BLEED
- RE-FIT WHEELS
- TEST DRIVE
WHERE TO CUT THE 10mm SLOT
WHAT THE BRACKET LOOKS LIKE
FINISHED PRODUCT
Late 120Y
1976-1978 120Y used the same struts and brakes as 1976-up Datsun 1200 ute (H74 suspension). The brake upgrade is done exactly as for earlier 120Y.
Aussie-assembled 120Y
1977-1978 Australian SEDANS used locally-source PBR brake caliper and a factory caliper adapter.
You may need to swap the struts right-to-left and left-to-right to clear the steering arms. You can also mount the calipers INBOARD for better weight distribution.
'78 120y struts discs and calipers cos they're an aussie assembled PBR product. i also swapped the struts left to right to clear the steering arms once i put silvia rotors and calipers in place. low1000
Optional: use Hilux 4-pot calipers, which only involve the elongation of one bolt hole with a round file and then bolt straight up over 180SX discs. These are similar to MK63 Brakes calipers but are cast iron instead of alloy.
S13 Brakes on Drum Struts
POST Chassis_slappin_1200 pioneered this swap. He made a bracket that allowed the calipers to be bolted the drum-brake strut.
Drum Strut * 1970-1975 small spindle * 1976-1989 large spindle
POST Chassis_slappin_1200 talked about making the adapter template available for download.
Using drum struts requires grinding the strut and fabricating a caliper bracket.
Chassis_slappin_1200 brake conversion
1st try: Bolt-on S14 250mm rotors
2nd try: Slip-on S13 rotor
Part Numbers
Rotor
RS13 Japan 180SX 8903-9812 [250 mm] 40206-35F01 8903-9101 CA18DET [280 mm] 40206-55F03 9101-9812 SR20DE+SR20DET <> 40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02
S13 Japan Silvia 8805-9310 [250 mm] 40206-35F01 SR20DE.2WS+CA18DE+CA18DET 8805-9310 <> 40206-35F02 [280 mm] 40206-55F01 2WS.KS+4WS 9308- <> 40206-55F03,40206-7J101,40206-73L01,40206-73L02
S13 EUROPE 200SX 0988-1293 (CA18DET) [257 mm] 40206-71E01/40206-71E02 0988-0991 [280 mm] 40206-55F01/40206-55F03 0991-1293
S13 USA 240SX 0788-0993 [251 mm (9.9 inch), non-ABS] 40206-40F01 0788-0891, 40206-40F02 0891-0993 [257 mm (10.1 inch), ABS] 40206-71E01 1188-0993 OPTION F/ANTI SKID CONT-4WH <> 40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07
Rear Rotor
For comparison.
43207
AUS/USA 258mm 43206-35F00/43206-35F01
EUROPE 200SX 0988-1293 (CA18DET) 265mm 43206-44F02/43206-44F01 <> 43206-15U00
JAPAN 258mm 43206-68F00 <> 43026-53F00 <> 43206-70F00
Caliper
JAPAN caliper [f/250mm rotor] 41001-35F00,41001-35F01 [f/280mm rotor] 41001-73L01
EUROPE caliper [f/257mm rotor] 41001-44F00,41001-44F01 -0991 [f/280mm rotor] 41001-73L01 0991- [f/rear rotor] 44001-44F00
USA caliper [f/251mm rotor] 41001-40F00,41001-40F01 (non-ABS) [f/257mm rotor] 41001-44F00,41001-44F01 (ABS)
251 vs 280 calipers
* different shape pads
* different height (for larger rotor)
Interchange
S13 vs S14
JAPAN S13 used 250 or 280 mm rotors S14 used 251 or 275 mm rotors on base SR20DE 2WS models. 5-lug on others. * 251mm 40206-40F03 9310-9606 40206-40F02 * 257mm 40206-71E07 9606-9812 40206-71E06 EUROPE S13 used 257 or 280 mm rotors S14 used 5-lug rotors
USA S13 used 251 or 257 mm rotors S14 used same for STD models. SE models used 5-lug rotors
250 mm
Nissan 40206-35F01,40206-35F02 ROTOR DBA 918
JAPAN S13 Silvia RS13 180SX
250mm pads are same as * SUZUKI SWIFT Hatchback (EA, MA) 8903-0312 Sedan (AH, AJ) 8903-0105
251 mm
40206-40F01,40206-40F02,40206-40F03 Brembo 09.5281.10
JAPAN * A31 Cefiro RB20E * C33 Laurel CA18I + RB20E + RD28 * R32 Skyline CA18I
USA * S13 240SX non-ABS * S14 240SX 4-lug 0294-0796
257 mm
Nissan 40206-71E01,40206-71E02,40206-71E05,40206-71E06,40206-71E07 Brembo 09.5449.10 DBA 617
AUSTRALIA U12 Pintara
JAPAN S14 9606- 2WS.SR20DE M11 Prairie 8809-9508 C22 Vanette 8809-9403 C33 Laurel 8812-9212 C34 Laurel 9301-9705 P10/W10 Primera 9002-9611 WP11 9709-0011 R32 Skyline 8905-9411 A31 Cefiro 8809-9406 U12 Bluebird 8709-9108 U13 Bluebird 9109-9511 U14 Bluebird 9601-
USA S13 240SX 1188-0993 with ABS S14 240SX 0796-0698 STD (except SE) M11 Axxess 0189-0394 U12 Stanza 0789-0692
280 mm
Nissan 40206-7J101,40206-55F01,40206-55F03,40206-73L01,40206-2F501 DBA 919, DBA 903 Brembo 09.5254.20 Ferodo DDF959
JAPAN * B15 0004- SR16VE * P11 0004- SR20VE, 4WD.SR20DE.MT, SR20DE.AT.F4 * U14 0004- SR20VE * WP11 0004- SR20DE.MT.FT + SR20DE.AT.F4 * WP11 0004- SR20DE.AT.CVT + SR20VE * P11 SR20VE, OPTION SR20DE * RS13, S13 some * U14 SR20VE * WP11 some * A31 4WD.IRS.RB20DT, OPTION.2WD.IRS+2WD.HICAS.RB20DT.AT.FR, OPTION.RB20 * C33 some * C34 some * R32 some USA * U13U 0692-0794 KA24DE.SE, OPTION.GXE, OPTION.AT * U13U 0794- KA24DE AUS - DBA919 * S13 Silvia 1991-1992 SR20DE * S13 180SX 1991-1998 SR20DET * P11 Primera 1995-2002 SR20DE * N16 Pulsar 2001-2006 QG18DE
COMPARISON - 5-lug Z31 300ZX - DBA907 26 thick Z32 300ZX - DBA909 30 thick 280 dia 54 height 68 mm center hole 5-hole
Specifications
250 mm Thickness: 18 mm nominal Hub Reg: 68 mm Height: 49 mm Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
251 mm Height: 49.2 mm Thickness: 20 mm nominal Hub Reg: 68 mm Bolt Size 12.75 mm Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
257 mm Height: 49 mm Thickness: 22 mm nominal Hub Reg: 68 mm Bolt Size 12.6 mm Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm inside diameter (over hub): 144 Caliper: Akebono
280 mm Height: 49 mm Thickness: 22 mm nominal Hub Reg: 68 mm Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm inside diameter (over hub): 143.75 Caliper: Sumitomo
258 mm REAR Height: 46.5 mm Thickness: 9 mm nominal Hub Reg: 68 mm Bolt Size 12.75 mm Bolt Circle: 4x114.3 mm
USA S13 251 mm rotor (non-ABS) * caliper: 54mm bore (2.122") * pads: 121x50.4 41060-G8190 D422 257 mm rotor (ABS) * caliper: 57mm bore (2.25") * pads: 137x54.3 41060-40F90 D449,D462,D469,D485,D700,D747,DD887 REAR 258 mm rotor * caliper: 33mm bore (1-5/16") * pads: 85.3x42.9 D230,D231,D232,D272 Use with wheels: 6JJx15 +40 4Tx15 +40 4Tx16 +35
JAPAN SILVIA 250 mm rotor * Caliper: 48mm bore * pad: 115x47.6 AY040-NS926 * 5Jx14 wheel 280 mm rotor * Caliper: 54mm bore * pad: 137.2x53 AY040-NS929 * 6JJx15 +40 wheel
EUROPE 200SX 257 mm rotor to 09/1991 * caliper: 54mm bore * pad: 137x54.6 280 mm rotor from 10/1991 * caliper: 54mm bore * pad: 137.2x53
Brake Pads
Pads for 250mm rotor vs 280mm rotor
[for 250 mm rotor] 114.8 x 49 mm
AY040-NS926, AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009
Sangsin SP1183
Bosch 0986493450
S13 Japan - 250 mm rotor
AY040-NS926 PAD KIT <> AY040-NS825, AY040-NS009
[for 280mm rotor] 137 x 53 x 15.5 mm
AY040-NS929
S13 Japan - 280 mm rotor
* AY040-NS929 PAD KIT
[for 251 mm rotor] 121 x 50.4 mm
41060-40F90,41060-40F91,41060-40F92,41060-40F92,D106M-40F90,D106M-40F94,D106M-40F25
Centric 102.04220
[for 257 mm rotor] 137 x 54.3 x 17 mm
41060-G8190,D106M-G8190
Centric 301.07000
250 vs 280
S13 brakes on B310 Strut
darrenwilson put S13 brakes on B310 struts. POST Datsun 1200 Sedan Build and POST photos
Darren used 250mm S13 discs with Y11 calipers
1996-2005 Nissan Y11 AD Wingroad/Pulsar wagon
B310 A12 (small) rotor laid on top of S13 rotor
Y11 pad | B310/B110 (small) pad
257 Rotor
257mm rotors came on S13 EUROPE & USA, and S14 JAPAN -- and Nissan U12 Stanza/Bluebird (Pintara in AUSTRALIA), among others (see #Interchange section).
1200 Disc Hubs
The normal mods are done to fit the S13 rotors to the 1200/120Y struts.
- 1200/120Y drum hubs need to mods to fit the S13 rotors, or disc brake hubs can be used with machining. See #Hubs section
- Use a custom #caliper locating bracket of appropriate dimensions
1200 hubs with U12 Pintara 257 x 22 mm vented rotors with VK Commodore Girlock calipers (same as Skyline R31 calipers but without the external fins which limit rim selection).
Photo is of Datsun 1000 suspension with 1200 disc brake hubs. A custom steel bracket is fabricated for the caliper mounting.
Turn down the flanges a little bit on the 1200 disc hubs. Discussion: POST 1000 for sale
2-inch Struts
If you have Stanza/Sunny/200B struts, use the 4 spot Hilux Calipers which are a direct bolt-on requiring no adapter. The rotor requires machining of the bolt holes that bolt it to the hub.
PARTS LIST * 257 mm Nissan S13/S14/U12 rotors (DBA617) * 4-pot Hilux Calipers and pads * 2.0" Struts (A10, B310, etc) * brake hoses
POST 1200rallycar: using U12 pintara discs you need to:
... re-drill discs to 4x100mm to mount to hub machine out centre of disc slightly grind caliper to clear centre of hub
... possibly grind caliper to fit under 13" rims (depends on exact rim) you may also have to grind a little fat off the pad itself on the inside edge to clear the hub, cant remember but srb210 mentioned that no spacers required, no changing to caliper mount just straight on to stanza mount caliper mounts to the back side of the car (in relation to the strut)
kit
U12 GLOBAL rotors [250x22] 40206-51E01 CA18N+CA20S [257x22] 40206-71E06 CA20E <5> 40206-4M405
U12 JAPAN [250x22] 40206-51E01 CA16S,CA18I.2WD,LD20,SR18DI [257x22] 40206-71E01 CA18DE,CA18DET,4WD.CA18I, SSS.SR18DI, SR20D [280x22] 40206-80E01 8910- SR20DT 5-lug
DBA 617 Rotor * Vented * Diameter 257 * Height 49 * Thickness 22 * Min Thickness 20 * Centre Hole Dia 68 * Bolt holes 4
S13 Brakes on A10 Struts
Stanza A10 struts & hubs, with S13 rotors bolted behind hub
* bore rotor centre out to 73mm to fit the back of the hub
* drill the rotor for 95mm PCD for the hub bolts
* bolt rotor to the back of the hub
You may fit your choice of calipers. One of the largest which will fit under (some) 13" alloy wheels is the 4-piston Sumitomo S12+8.
S12 calipers bolt directly to A10 Stanza struts (no adapter needed)
Caliper is shimmed/spaced about 1mm to achieve dead centre.
To clear the S12 calipers, the rotor must be machined:
To clear the S13 rotors, the S12+8 calipers & brake pads must be ground:
